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*atomik_sprout* · Mar 10, 2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrianna

There is the difference between us then. If I knew someone who had committed murder and I knew they were guilty not only would it change my opinion I would turn them in.

Well said! It's like I said earlier: It's weird to know that if you knew someone who committed such a heinous act, you'd still support them. Were it my family/friend, they'd probably hate me, because I'd expect someone I knew to turn me in, were the shoe on the other foot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrianna

Go take a self-defense class and find out how easy it is. You learn a hundreds of ways to incapacitate someone but the instant the other has a gun they don't mean a thing. Those techniques for incapacitation are also very difficult and if done incorrectly literally hands you to them. As for shooting someone in a "safe place" forget it. Trying something like that just makes you a danger to others besides the assailant. That is why you are never supposed to pick up a gun in defense without the thought that you may have to kill with it. If you aren't willing to pull the trigger just put it back down and walk away.

Or don't buy a gun at all...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrianna

It is impossible because no matter what you do to the system you are still dealing with the same people with all their human imperfections. No matter what you do the prisoners will still be sadistic, inhumane, murderers that enjoy the pain and suffering of others and the prison workers will still be fallible, normal, people. The people imprisoned corrupt the system by their very presence but if they weren't like that they wouldn't need to be locked up in the first place. The people working for the prison are fallible no matter how perfect the system and will make mistakes which can then be fatal. In a nut shell, until people are perfect it is impossible for the system to be and then we won't need it.

While I appreciate your stand on 1st degree murderers... that is what those who support the death penalty are nearly always discussing (there has been a little discussion on punishing serial rapists that way too). It is those who speak against execution that do so in general terms of killing anyone. That is the main argument against capitol punishment societally. "Killing is always wrong." Except it isn't and the instant you admit an exception such as self defense or defense of country you also have to admit to the need to defend the citizens even when you are not "at war".

I agree! The system has never been, nor will it be perfect; neither are the people who uphold such laws and rules. None of us can say that we are infalliable or god-like, and until one of us can, there's no way that changing the system will do us any good.

Also, on the note of self-defense: Arrianna is absolutely correct! It takes mad training to learn how to successfully incapacitate your opponent with your hands, let alone a gun! And those who ARE that accurate with a projectile weapon have to train longer than those who are good with their empty fists! Being able to fire a weapon and immobilize an intruder/attacker without sending a stray bullet to someone else is about as easy as crossing the street blindfolded while carrying a dozed boxes stacked up on top of one another during rush hour!! It barely happens. Why do you think the police usually kill their assailants when they have weapons on them? Trust me, it's not completely on purpose. Police have to go through all sorts of weapons training before they can be issued a gun. They're told shoot to incapacitate, not kill and only when need be. Yet, when the need arises, most assailants are shot dead. Why? Because it's hard to shoot someone in a 'safe area' without them dying. Guns aren't meant to stun people; only stop them. If you wanna defend your home without worry of killing someone, you'd better invest in about thirty years of Karate training.