Thread: Hall of Fame

Originally Posted by pyoro-pyoro

My question to you is: Who would you nominated into this Hall of Fame??

Wow. Great, original idea for a thread. +10 for you

Now... There are a countless number of people that can be mentioned for their worth, and many will obviously be named over the few number of days. To start off, though, I think I'll have to nominate a guy whose memorial I have visited in Atlanta. That guy would be Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

I can fairly assume that everyone here would vouch for Dr. King for the World Hall of Fame. I managed to buy a Civil Rights book and a DVD on King himself. He was an extremely important part in the Civil Rights movement. I'd like to think that without him, the changes that have been made in this country would not exist today. I couldn't help getting a lump in the throat when looking at some of the stuff they offered at The King Center where the memorial sits. His speeches are extremely inspirational and wise. I think everyone should hear them at least once in their lifetime. There's a lot you can learn from him.

Well, that's my two cents. I'll add some more guys later once some other people start posting. Feel free to add more info about Martin Luther if you can.

Muhammad The Messenger...
>>> because he is the one who is loved by all of Moslem on this Earth, who is very kind. one of the reason i nominate him is because even when he almost die he still care of other moslem and said to keep their activities based on Koran and Al Hadist, so that they will be live a better live in life and after life on this earth.
Because of his kindness and what he said is true (he did not lie), he become the one that can be trusted in that age.. He gave the good, very good, example to other moslem how to pray, how to communicate to other people,how to act (how to sing, how to surpress anger, how to sleep, how to care other people, etc), and many else. He is the one who come to the person house when he is sick althought that person always made many bad thing to him.. i know there are many other things that can be the reason to nominate him..so i have a respect to him.

Albert Einstein of course, he made many break throughs in science which helps us now and days ^_^

Originally Posted by baikuza

Muhammad The Messenger...
>>> because he is the one who is loved by all of Moslem on this Earth, who is very kind. one of the reason i nominate him is because even when he almost die he still care of other moslem and said to keep their activities based on Koran and Al Hadist, so that they will be live a better live in life and after life on this earth.
Because of his kindness and what he said is true (he did not lie), he become the one that can be trusted in that age.. He gave the good, very good, example to other moslem how to pray, how to communicate to other people,how to act (how to sing, how to surpress anger, how to sleep, how to care other people, etc), and many else. He is the one who come to the person house when he is sick even that person always made many bad thing to him.. i know there are many other things that can be the reason to nominate him..so i have a respect to him.

I'd have to strongly disagree here. First of all, I'd probably think it's best not to get religion involved here. Now I can easily say, let's have Jesus in the Hall of Fame, although I'm sure some of you might be bothered by that.

Secondly, there exists an extraordinary amount of conspiracy and criticism in accordance to Muhammad. While criticism obviously comes from those of Christian faith, many also come from scholars and historians, such as these next few: (P.S. I'd like to note that the last one, William Montgomery Watt was a supporter of Muhammad in many ways.)

"D. S. Margoliouth -

Positive:

'I regard Mohammed as a great man, who solved a political problem of appalling difficulty,-the construction of a state and an empire out of the Arab tribes. I have endeavored, in recounting the mode in which he accomplished this, to do justice to his intellectual ability and to observe towards him the respectful attitude which his greatness deserves.'

Negative:

'In order to gain his ends he (Muhammad) recoils from no expedient, and he approves of similar unscrupulousness on the part of his adherents, when exercised in his interest. He profits utmost from the chivalry of the Meccans, but rarely requites it with the like... For whatever he does he is prepared to plead the express authorization of the deity. It is, however, impossible to find any doctrine which he is not prepared to abandon in order to secure a political end.'"



"Alexis de Tocqueville -

'I studied the Quran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. As far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion more to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.'

'Muhammad professed to derive from Heaven, and he has inserted in the Koran, not only a body of religious doctrines, but political maxims, civil and criminal laws, and theories of science. The gospel, on the contrary, only speaks of the general relations of men to God and to each other - beyond which it inculcates and imposes no point of faith. This alone, besides a thousand other reasons, would suffice to prove that the former of these religions will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, whilst the latter is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods.'"



"William Montgomery Watt -

Positive:

'I always took the view — contrary to most previous scholars of Islam — that the Quran was not something that Muhammad had consciously produced. For long, however, I hesitated to speak of him as a prophet, because Muslims would have taken this to mean that everything in the Quran was finally and absolutely true, which was something I did not believe. More recently, however, I have said that Muhammad is a prophet comparable to the Old Testament prophets, though with a different task, namely, to bring the knowledge of God to people without such knowledge, whereas their task was mainly to criticize the conduct of those who already believed in God.'

Negative:

'In Muhammad, I should hold, there was a welling up of the creative imagination, and the ideas thus produced are to a great extent true and sound. It does not follow, however, that all the Qur'anic ideas are true and sound. In particular there is at least one point at which they seem to be unsound; the idea that ' revelation ' or the product of the creative imagination is superior to normal human traditions as a source of bare historical fact. There are several verses in the Qur'an (II. 5I; 3. 39; I2. I03) to the effect that ' this is one of the reports of the unseen which We reveal to thee; thou didst not know it, thou nor thy people, before this '. One could admit a claim that the creative imagination was able to give a new and truer interpretation of a historical event, but to make it a source of bare fact is an exaggeration and false.'

'This point is of special concern to Christians, since the Qur'an denies the bare fact of the death of Jesus on the cross, and Muslims still consider that this denial outweighs the contrary testimony of historical tradition. The primary intention of the Qur'an was to deny the Jews' interpretation of the crucifixion as a victory for themselves, but as normally explained it goes much farther. The same exaggeration of the role of ' revelation ' has also had other consequences. The Arab contribution to Islamic culture has been unduly magnified, and that of the civilized peoples of Egypt, Syria, 'Iraq and Persia, later converted to Islam, has been sadly belittled.'


And here's a quote from a Christian point of view:

"During the 13th century European medieval knowledge of the life of Muhammad was “completed” in a series of works by scholars such as Pedro Pascual, Ricoldo de Monte Croce, and Ramon Llull. In these works, however, Muhammad was depicted as an imposter and Islam as a Christian heresy, and in some of them Muhammad was portrayed as the Antichrist. That he was considered unlettered by Muslims, that he married a wealthy widow, that he ruled over a human community and was therefore involved in several wars, and that in his later life he had several wives were all facts interpreted in the worst light possible. That he died like “an ordinary person” was contrasted with the supernatural end to Christ's earthly life."

It doesn't come as much a surprise. Martin Luther King was quoted to calling Muhammad as "a devil and first-born child of Satan."

There's a lot more that I can post, but I'll refrain due to a terribly long post. None of those quotes are mine, and are of old scholars, so do not flame at me. However, I just don't think you can place someone with so much conspiracy in such a Hall of Fame. Although, I'm all for leaving religion as a whole out of it.

I'll agree with Albert Einstien.
I don't really know of anyone else who I would put in there but the first person that came into my head was Ian Lowe - a highly respected environmentalist in Australia. He is a major inspiration to me.
But I wasn't sure how well known he is on the international level.

I guess I should explain myself more. Mastasu Oyama the God of Karate deserves to be put in the hall of fame. He was a hard core practioner who revived Karate as an effective fighting style.

Oyama trained in the mountains for 3 years in isiolation and challenged hundreds of martial artist from all over the world.

One time Oyama fought 300 people in a row. No one has ever been able to surpass or even meet his record. He even fought and killed bulls with his bare hands.

Adam of course. he is the patriarch of our race, why wouldn't he be admitted?