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Thread: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

  1. #25
    Banned The White Wolf is off to a good start
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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Arrianna, I don't believe maniacs who think and act on impulse will take their time making a gun. So if the U.S. slows down a bit on the freedom citizens have with weapons, maybe these random acts of shooting will decrease by that much. Of course people can get their hands on stuff when it's illegal, but I mean.. there are still kids who don't drink because they are underaged.

    Do you see what I'm saying?

  2. #26
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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    Nice story gwenibe now tell me how often that happens per year? It shouldn't be to hard they all end up on the news. Add the incidents of accidental death of a child due to guns, the average is 9, and it's not many. Now ask how many violent crimes are prevented yearly by law abiding citizens with guns? Well over a thousand.
    Perhaps those people wouldn't need to stop those the person committing the crime in the first place didn't have a gun? I'm presuming not all of them would be the case but a few would be. Sure, there are other means such as knives.

    also the average might be nine, but those are peoples lives you are talking about, considering it shouldn't even be happening in the first place. That's some ones child lost because no one wanted to prevent it in the first place because they had a 'right to bare arms'

    I don't questions facts or figures until I do my own research. There are heaps of research saying what you found, but I bet I could find a heap that say the opposite. The debate is hot in the area and it's hard to find anything conclusive and un bias.

    But I personally don't think that is an excuse to not restrict gun laws. Because that average of 9 you said? They could have been saved.

    As I have stated twice now, it might not save everyone, but if saves just a few, than it's a good one.

  3. #27
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Quote Originally Posted by The White Wolf View Post
    Arrianna, I don't believe maniacs who think and act on impulse will take their time making a gun. So if the U.S. slows down a bit on the freedom citizens have with weapons, maybe these random acts of shooting will decrease by that much. Of course people can get their hands on stuff when it's illegal, but I mean.. there are still kids who don't drink because they are underaged.

    Do you see what I'm saying?
    The numbers say otherwise. Not to mention this isn't like some kid taking a drink when no one is looking or not because of legality. Murder is already illegal; why would someone who is already going to commit a crime going to give a care about committing a smaller one. Nor are they acting on impulse, the vast majority of these crimes in the last several years were premeditated. Nor would they have to take the time to make the gun they just buy it from underground sellers who make them by the thousands.


    @ Gwenbie: what about the hundreds whose lives were saved by citizens with concealed guns. Is 9 a fair trade? If so can I give you $9 and you can give me several hundred. It would solve my money problems.



    Lastly, neither of you are addressing the entire point of my statement: these keep happening in gun free zones. Why?
    Last edited by Arrianna; Dec 08, 2007 at 10:09 PM. Reason: clarifying

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  4. #28
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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    why? Because of the people that can get their hands on the gun in the first place. Either that or it's obvious no one is enforcing the gun free area. Hire more security. Either way stating some place is a gun free zone means moot to a suicidal maniac.

    as for the thousands that are saved, there are hundreds of other ways to go about it. Why are they committing the crime in the first place would help as a start. They might have a conceal weapon but does the other person have a gun? If the one committing the crime didn't have a gun would it still be the same? would the out come be the same? As I said those thousand would possibly drop because of the fact that guns are harder to get.

    Actually, this 'thousand of people' brings about the need for other combine solutions as well, such as the social, emotional reasons why people are doing things in the first place.
    I mean, if you have kids shooting up other kids, there is clearly a social problem somewhere.

  5. #29
    I'm all ears. Hassun has disabled reputation
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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    The numbers say otherwise. Not to mention this isn't like some kid taking a drink when no one is looking or not because of legality. Murder is already illegal; why would someone who is already going to commit a crime going to give a care about committing a smaller one. Nor are they acting on impulse, the vast majority of these crimes in the last several years were premeditated. Nor would they have to take the time to make the gun they just buy it from underground sellers who make them by the thousands.
    I for one strongly oppose arming everyone to the teeth to prevent crime. It increases vigilante attitude and disrupts the police apparatus. Do you really think crime will halt when you arm everyone? Far from it. People will just get bigger guns to counter the little ones. Owner gets a pistol for home defence? Criminal arms himself with an AK-47.
    It's an endless spiral.

    That these crimes happen in gun free zones is most likely because it's way too easy to enter these zones armed.

  6. #30
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Who said anything about arming everyone to the teeth?

    Yes anyone can have guns but to carry them concealed you have to have a permit.

    How to Get a Permit to Carry a Concealed Weapon in Nebraska

    Nebraska is a "shall issue" state as of January 3, 2007. A carry and conceal weapon (CCW) permit will be issued to anyone who qualifies. The issuing authority is the Nebraska State Police. The following steps will show how to obtain a CCW license in Nebraska.
    Instructions
    Difficulty: Challenging
    Steps

    1
    Step One
    Complete an approved handgun training and safety course (or equivalent military training) within three years before you apply for the permit. The fee is determined by the instructor and the length is usually between eight and 16 hours. Fill out an application form and get it notarized.
    2
    Step Two
    Apply in person at the Criminal Identification Division of the State Patrol or one of the Nebraska State Police offices. Bring the application form, training certificate, photo ID, proof of citizenship, proof of vision requirement and the permit fee.
    3
    Step Three
    Show that you are a United States citizen by submitting a birth certificate, naturalization papers, certificate of citizenship or a United States passport. The vision requirement can be met by showing your driver's license or a note by a Nebraska ophthalmologist stating that you qualify for a Class O driver's license.
    4
    Step Four
    Receive your permit in about two weeks if you pass the criminal background check. Renew your permit every five years by paying the renewal fee. You will not need to take a training course again if you renew your permit before it expires.
    5
    Step Five
    Inform peace officers that you are carrying a concealed weapon.
    Many states have even stricter requirements. These "gun free zones" try and block everyone from having a gun on the premises including those with permits and officers of the law. The only ones they can't block from carrying a gun legally is on duty police, even their own security isn't armed. Soooo why are they going to "gun free zones"? Because there is no one there to stop them. Sheesh.

    Now tell me honestly, what would happen if one of these guys walked into a monster truck rally and started shooting?


    @gwenibe you are still not considering the "hot crime" rates. These crimes are committed everywhere. The difference is how cautious the criminals need to be and why. I love your idea of ending crime, now what do we do in the meantime?

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  7. #31
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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Thatthe problem is obviously related to the gun free zone itself. For example, they should allow the officers patrolling these zones to be armed and nobody else. Not concealed either.

    Who said anything about arming everyone to the teeth?
    Well actually you are, not just in this thread of course but you frequently come to the conclusion that if more people were armed (legally) then there would be less crime. And that isn't true at all. In the past, pretty much everyone was armed and that didn't decrease crime in any way. And like I said, having more people armed just causes criminals to use bigger, more lethal guns.

    Something slightly similar to that but on a continent-sized scale caused World War 1. How foolish it was thinking that a large amount of arms would cancel out another large amount of arms. You're just creating a giant gunpowder keg which will blow with the tiniest spark.

    If a larger amount of arms lowers the crime rating like that link suggests it will only be temporary and a short-term solution. It only works when a large quantity of the population actually doesn't own a gun. As soon as almost everyone does, the effect is not only canceled but actually reversed.
    Last edited by Hassun; Dec 10, 2007 at 04:11 PM.

  8. #32
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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassun View Post
    If a larger amount of arms lowers the crime rating like that link suggests it will only be temporary and a short-term solution. It only works when a large quantity of the population actually doesn't own a gun. As soon as almost everyone does, the effect is not only canceled but actually reversed.
    Based on what? US history suggests otherwise. Most of the stories you hear about the "Wild West" are sheer myth; the west was actually a very polite place. The exception was area's with large numbers of criminals carrying weapons unchallenged. Concealed weapons permits don't do that.

    Can you show me anywhere that it happened differently?


    BTW is ANYONE going to answer my question "what would happen if one of these guys walked into a monster truck rally and started shooting?"

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