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Thread: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    @Arianna- I wanna guess...i know i'll be wrong but....
    Ummm...no one would notice because of the sound?

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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    Based on what? US history suggests otherwise. Most of the stories you hear about the "Wild West" are sheer myth; the west was actually a very polite place. The exception was area's with large numbers of criminals carrying weapons unchallenged. Concealed weapons permits don't do that.

    Can you show me anywhere that it happened differently?
    Let's not limit ourselves to the USA or the 'wild west'. Let's see how the middle ages were faring, or any time between that and the industrial revolution. For a long time, pretty much everyone wore weapons. Concealed or out in the open. Do you think crime ratings were low in those days? They were a lot higher than they are now, that's for sure.

    We didn't go from being armed to outlawing and restricting the use and ownership of arms for no reason you know. Even though sensational press and tabloids are ever so happy to yell out how everything has gone bad and how it all used to be much better, reality is very different. Compared to 100 years ago, crime rates are probably extremely low.



    BTW is ANYONE going to answer my question "what would happen if one of these guys walked into a monster truck rally and started shooting?"
    Nobody would notice because of the noise. What's the point of this question anyway? Events like this (like big sports games) are extremely well monitored and controlled for a reason. Over here, all entrants not only need to pass a metal detector but they are frisked as well. On top of that there is always a large police force present to prevent riots.
    THAT is the best way to handle it.

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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    The perpetrator left a note saying that he "just snapped." That can't be true. If he had just snapped, he would not have taken his gun, driven to the mall, and THEN shot a bunch of people. It was premeditated.

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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Quote Originally Posted by divine_punishment View Post
    The perpetrator left a note saying that he "just snapped." That can't be true. If he had just snapped, he would not have taken his gun, driven to the mall, and THEN shot a bunch of people. It was premeditated.
    Maybe he 'snapped' and then started planning to go out in style?

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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Going out in style is setting yourself on fire and swan diving off of a skyscraper, not killing a large group of innocent civilians before turning the gun on yourself.

  6. #38
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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassun View Post
    Let's not limit ourselves to the USA or the 'wild west'. Let's see how the middle ages were faring, or any time between that and the industrial revolution. For a long time, pretty much everyone wore weapons. Concealed or out in the open. Do you think crime ratings were low in those days? They were a lot higher than they are now, that's for sure.
    Well that was a good question so I took the time to go do some research and this is what I found.

    Medieval Justice Not So Medieval
    Murder rates per capita in 14th-century England were a fifth that of Washington D.C. in the 1990s, according to estimates by the British government.
    DC is a "gun free zone".


    No. 119: Guns and Violence: Malcolm Disarms Britain
    As Malcolm shows, violence in Britain had been in decline since guns became common in the late medieval period. Even after guns became common by the 15th century, violence seemed to be somewhat in decline. By Victorian times, when even handguns, could be, and were, purchased over the counter by any adult, murder rates had fallen to levels that would make any American big-city mayor dance with joy.
    Even if you claim that gun ownership doesn't drop crime it can't be claimed to raise it either.


    Did Knives and Forks Cut Murders?
    So did its changing nature. Widespread evidence indicates that in the Middle Ages physical violence, even to the point of death, was a widely accepted way of resolving disputes and defending one's honor. Most killings occurred in public in front of many witnesses when a dispute, generally among neighbors, got out of hand.
    Evidently in the middle ages most "murders" were actually from duels and honor combat; only 12% were actually convicted of murder. So unless dueling is going to become socially acceptable the numbers really aren't comparable.


    Or in other words your theory doesn't hold.




    Quote Originally Posted by Hassun View Post
    Nobody would notice because of the noise. What's the point of this question anyway? Events like this (like big sports games) are extremely well monitored and controlled for a reason. Over here, all entrants not only need to pass a metal detector but they are frisked as well. On top of that there is always a large police force present to prevent riots.
    That is not how they are treated here however. You can walk into any sporting event by just buying a ticket and walking in. So why aren't they going to a monster truck rally and opening fire on all those convenient crowds? The point of the question is what type of people attend monster truck rallies. Perhaps someone who is in the habit of attending can tell you the likely number of participants armed. Going on a shoot out there would be suicide. Fast, quick suicide. And the people who attend don't have to be frisked to feel secure.


    @divine_punishment: I like your idea of going out in style. lol pity more of these shooters don't agree with you.

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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    Well that was a good question so I took the time to go do some research and this is what I found.

    Medieval Justice Not So Medieval
    "Murder rates per capita in 14th-century England were a fifth that of Washington D.C. in the 1990s, according to estimates by the British government."
    DC is a "gun free zone".
    Most of the crimes in those days were never reported.
    You list murder rates but not crime rates. There is a difference.
    Not to mention that guns weren't exactly popular amongst the people in those days. -_-
    And that the chances of killing someone with a gun are a higher than with melee weapons or arrows.


    Even if you claim that gun ownership doesn't drop crime it can't be claimed to raise it either.
    But that does make it a non-working solution to the problem.
    It also suggests that fixing the problem doesn't work this way. E.g. If you want lower crime rates, you should do something about employment rates rather than promoting concealed carry.
    Concealed Carry in itself even sounds stupid to me. If you want to make sure people do not mess with you than the last thing you want to do is hide your gun. I don't think you scare criminals more by making them unsure that you are armed or making them know you are armed.

    Evidently in the middle ages most "murders" were actually from duels and honor combat; only 12% were actually convicted of murder. So unless dueling is going to become socially acceptable the numbers really aren't comparable.
    Again you only talk about murders and not crime.

    More from the Knives and forks article:
    Historians in Continental Europe followed suit and came up with findings that yielded the same surprising result: that murder was much more common in the Middle Ages than it is now and that it dropped precipitately in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. Something very important changed in Western behavior and attitudes, and it stood much prevailing social theory on its head.
    But after the late Middle Ages, Ms. Hanawalt detects a marked shift. ''There is a real change in community tolerance,'' she said. ''The state is more prominent, the local community has less control.''
    Again, it's not weapons that make things safer. It's mentality.


    That is not how they are treated here however. You can walk into any sporting event by just buying a ticket and walking in. So why aren't they going to a monster truck rally and opening fire on all those convenient crowds? The point of the question is what type of people attend monster truck rallies. Perhaps someone who is in the habit of attending can tell you the likely number of participants armed. Going on a shoot out there would be suicide. Fast, quick suicide. And the people who attend don't have to be frisked to feel secure.
    Most people doing this are planning to die anyway. Having other armed people around wouldn't really deter me if I were planning on dying anyway. Heck, it would even increase the fun.

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    Re: Mall Shooting In Nebraska

    Quote Originally Posted by divine_punishment View Post
    Going out in style is setting yourself on fire and swan diving off of a skyscraper, not killing a large group of innocent civilians before turning the gun on yourself.
    The shooter may just be afraid of death. Hence, he kills others so he doesn't have to make the journey alone.

    Don't quite understand how that philosophy works, but it's a possibility.

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