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Old Jul 17, 2008, 01:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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A man was beaten to death in my town.

The witness says thata it was because he was hispanic, yet no one has been charged. Multiple rumors are going around saying that it was our own, Shenandoah Valley, football players who were apparently drunk. One being a police officers son and still nothing is being done about it.

Do you think this is right? Because I most certanly think that they should be arrested and be put on death row.

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Old Jul 17, 2008, 02:26 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: A man was beaten to death in my town.

Is it right? No. but unfortunitly, thats life.

Human Beings are one of the few animals on the planet that kill eachother out of anger, or for some reason other then for survival. We are capable of horrible things, yet capable of great beauty as well.

there are 6.7 billion people on this planet. We're all not going to be nice people.

And as much as this is disturbing, you go into a larger city, this is common place. I used to live in Winnipeg Manitoba, a city that for several years had the distinction of holding the title of "Murder Capital of North America" because it had the highest murders per captia. And last year, when I was living in Calgary Alberta, a woman pushed a teenager on to the tracks of the C-Tran just as it was coming into the station, killing him instantly. She didn't have a reason why.

We're a terrible species.
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 03:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: A man was beaten to death in my town.

I donnot think it is right at all. the first wrong was beating him because he was hispanic. and I think they should get the deth penalty. but if the officers do not know who did it yet, they are probably in the middle of an investigation. officers dont let those things slide.
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 04:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: A man was beaten to death in my town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aceman67 View Post
Is it right? No. but unfortunitly, thats life.

Human Beings are one of the few animals on the planet that kill eachother out of anger, or for some reason other then for survival. We are capable of horrible things, yet capable of great beauty as well.

there are 6.7 billion people on this planet. We're all not going to be nice people.

And as much as this is disturbing, you go into a larger city, this is common place. I used to live in Winnipeg Manitoba, a city that for several years had the distinction of holding the title of "Murder Capital of North America" because it had the highest murders per captia. And last year, when I was living in Calgary Alberta, a woman pushed a teenager on to the tracks of the C-Tran just as it was coming into the station, killing him instantly. She didn't have a reason why.

We're a terrible species.
We're not a terrible species, Aceman, jus' capable of terrible acts; jus' like any other creature on this planet. And we do kill for survival jus' not always. And we're not the only creatures that kill outta spite or malice or any other reason other than survival. Case in point take dolphins for instance, male dolphins will accost a female, that has recently givin' birth, kill it's baby; and it's all jus' so that they can mate wit the female and produce their own off-spring. A male grizzly bear will kill, even eat, a grizzly cub; no matter the sex of the cub; and the only reason that scientists can figure why is that the male is eliminatin' compitition. The capacity for great cruelty exists in all the creatures of this earth, as is the capacity for great kindness. Is mankind capable of great and cruel acts? Inna word Yes. R we the only species that does? No. Like u said 6.7 Billion ppl r on this planet and we're not all gonna b nice ta one another, but we have the capacity ta learn, adapt, and evolve inna a way that other species r incapable of. We won' b able ta end violence, but we can make sure that those who break the laws r given there jus' do. R things like this gonna continue ta happen? Undoubtedly, but we shouldn' despair. This is why mankind has developed judicial systems, ta help protect us from our greatest threat, ourselves. But jus' like anythin' that mankind has a hand in, it's far from perfect. However it would b less than that if we didn' have it.

That bein' said, as far as "there's nothin' bein' done" is concerned; it could b that the investigators may not have enough evidence ta officially charge the perpetrators. Or it could b that the lack of action could b racially motivated, or 'cause, as u have stated urself Starfire1036, of the connection between one of the perpetrators and the investigators. We simply do not know and 'til somethin' is done, we simply won'. Things like this take time, one can' expect action overnight. Have a little patience and an outcome will happen. I read an article in a newspaper one time where a father, a detective, who arrested and turned in his own son for a robbery; after a 6 week investigation. Jus' 'cause one of the perpetrators is the son of one of the police officers there doesn' mean that the officer will not arrest him, or her, for this crime and turn them in. Yet it doesn' mean that the officer will either, we jus' simply do not know and 'til the outcome reveals itself, it'll still b up in the air what will happen next.
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 12:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: A man was beaten to death in my town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mage View Post
We're not a terrible species, Aceman, jus' capable of terrible acts; jus' like any other creature on this planet. And we do kill for survival jus' not always. And we're not the only creatures that kill outta spite or malice or any other reason other than survival. Case in point take dolphins for instance, male dolphins will accost a female, that has recently givin' birth, kill it's baby; and it's all jus' so that they can mate wit the female and produce their own off-spring. A male grizzly bear will kill, even eat, a grizzly cub; no matter the sex of the cub; and the only reason that scientists can figure why is that the male is eliminatin' compitition. The capacity for great cruelty exists in all the creatures of this earth, as is the capacity for great kindness. Is mankind capable of great and cruel acts? Inna word Yes. R we the only species that does? No. Like u said 6.7 Billion ppl r on this planet and we're not all gonna b nice ta one another, but we have the capacity ta learn, adapt, and evolve inna a way that other species r incapable of. We won' b able ta end violence, but we can make sure that those who break the laws r given there jus' do. R things like this gonna continue ta happen? Undoubtedly, but we shouldn' despair. This is why mankind has developed judicial systems, ta help protect us from our greatest threat, ourselves. But jus' like anythin' that mankind has a hand in, it's far from perfect. However it would b less than that if we didn' have it.

That bein' said, as far as "there's nothin' bein' done" is concerned; it could b that the investigators may not have enough evidence ta officially charge the perpetrators. Or it could b that the lack of action could b racially motivated, or 'cause, as u have stated urself Starfire1036, of the connection between one of the perpetrators and the investigators. We simply do not know and 'til somethin' is done, we simply won'. Things like this take time, one can' expect action overnight. Have a little patience and an outcome will happen. I read an article in a newspaper one time where a father, a detective, who arrested and turned in his own son for a robbery; after a 6 week investigation. Jus' 'cause one of the perpetrators is the son of one of the police officers there doesn' mean that the officer will not arrest him, or her, for this crime and turn them in. Yet it doesn' mean that the officer will either, we jus' simply do not know and 'til the outcome reveals itself, it'll still b up in the air what will happen next.

I could not have said it any better myself. We are not a cruel species. Don't get me wrong. What happened was bad, and the culprit(s) should be punished. But the investigators cant really find who did it instantly. Time and patience will have to be a factor. But I feel that whoever did it should be arrested and put behind bars for a long time.
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 02:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: A man was beaten to death in my town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol-x View Post
I could not have said it any better myself. We are not a cruel species. Don't get me wrong. What happened was bad, and the culprit(s) should be punished. But the investigators cant really find who did it instantly. Time and patience will have to be a factor. But I feel that whoever did it should be arrested and put behind bars for a long time.
They know who might have done it. They know that everyone is saying that it is our football players. I was there when one of the victims friends told who did it... It is believed that it is one of the police officers' son. Absolutly nothing is being done about it... My girlsfriend is puerto rican and I am scared to let her come and see me because of this... They think that the Mexican festival thats coming up is going to be a blood bath.

This IS a raciest town and NOTHING is being done about any of it.
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 03:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: A man was beaten to death in my town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mage View Post
We're not a terrible species, Aceman, jus' capable of terrible acts
You're right. We just do terrible things that make us terrible to the words and minds of basically everyone that is "us".

Anywho, someone was killed, possibly for a stupid reason, no justice is served.

Nothing new.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 04:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: A man was beaten to death in my town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starfire1036 View Post
They know who might have done it. They know that everyone is saying that it is our football players. I was there when one of the victims friends told who did it... It is believed that it is one of the police officers' son. Absolutly nothing is being done about it... My girlsfriend is puerto rican and I am scared to let her come and see me because of this... They think that the Mexican festival thats coming up is going to be a blood bath.

This IS a raciest town and NOTHING is being done about any of it.
Starfire, I hope that an outcome reveals itself 'fore anymore bloodshed could, possibly, happen. I've lived in racist town 'fore myself and I understand ur passion bout this, but if I've learned anythin' bout situations like this is... U can' expect things ta happen overnight. U could very well b correct in ur assement bout nothin' bein' done or it could very well b that they simply don' have enough evidence ta make the arrest. 'Til the outcome reveals itself, it'll remain "up in the air" as ta what'll happen next. However, if u and the victim's family feel that there is a lack of progress in the investigation, the family of the victim can make an appeal ta have an outside, impartial investigation of the murder done. This would put the investigation inta Federal hands and the FBI could b called in ta investigate, but, however, that's up ta the victim's family. I can only hope that a resolution ta this tragedy will find itself soon and that the Perpetrators r brought ta justice.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 05:55 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: A man was beaten to death in my town.

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Originally Posted by Joe Mage View Post
Starfire, I hope that an outcome reveals itself 'fore anymore bloodshed could, possibly, happen. I've lived in racist town 'fore myself and I understand ur passion bout this, but if I've learned anythin' bout situations like this is... U can' expect things ta happen overnight. U could very well b correct in ur assement bout nothin' bein' done or it could very well b that they simply don' have enough evidence ta make the arrest. 'Til the outcome reveals itself, it'll remain "up in the air" as ta what'll happen next. However, if u and the victim's family feel that there is a lack of progress in the investigation, the family of the victim can make an appeal ta have an outside, impartial investigation of the murder done. This would put the investigation inta Federal hands and the FBI could b called in ta investigate, but, however, that's up ta the victim's family. I can only hope that a resolution ta this tragedy will find itself soon and that the Perpetrators r brought ta justice.
Quote:
BY LESLIE RICHARDSON
STAFF WRITER
lrichardson@republicanherald.com
Published: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:42 AM EDT
SHENANDOAH — Luis Ramirez’s death was ruled a homicide Tuesday by Montour County Coroner Scott Lynn, who conducted an autopsy earlier that afternoon.

Ramirez, 25, of Shenandoah, died of blunt force head trauma, Lynn said, but officials and members of the Hispanic community are still unsure what prompted a group of juveniles to allegedly attack Ramirez on Saturday.
Officials were still interviewing suspects Tuesday and no charges had been filed.
“I don’t believe it was a racial or hate crime,” borough Manager Joseph Palubinsky said Tuesday. “It was unfortunate the individual lost his life and the rest of the individuals’ lives will be affected for the rest of their lives. It is incomprehensible that things like this could happen. This is a small town and things like this aren’t supposed to happen."
Ramirez, 15 N. Main St., died at 6:30 a.m. Monday at Geisinger Medical Center, Danville, where he was taken for treatment after suffering severe head injuries in the altercation near Vine Street Park on Saturday night, Shenandoah police Lt. William Moyer said. One witness who lives near the scene of the crime said she heard someone yelling, “You tell all your Mexican friends to get out of town.”
Micky Singh, head of the Diversity Council of Schuylkill County, was unaware of the incident until Tuesday morning.
“As of now I am just speechless. This is the first time anything like this has happened since I have been involved in the council.”
After a meeting later Tuesday afternoon, Singh said the Diversity Council decided to watch the situation closely before taking a stance on the matter.
“All we know so far is speculation and before jumping the gun, we want to know all the facts,” Singh said. “If you jump the gun before knowing the whole story, you could create more division.”
Flor Gomez said a number of Hispanic families have moved to Shenandoah from larger cities because they feel it is a safe community, one in which they would like to raise their children.
“Personally, I feel safe. I don’t want to say it was racial. I am hoping it is not racial,” Gomez said. “Things happen everywhere where little kids call each other names. It goes with being a kid. You just hope it doesn’t go any further than that.”
Gomez said there is diversity in Shenandoah, not only between Hispanics and non-Hispanics but in the Hispanic culture itself.
“There are different races within the Hispanic culture just like the American culture. There could be people of three or four descents considered Hispanic all living in Shenandoah and not everyone gets along. But that is just people in general. Not everyone gets along.”
Gomez was not aware of any plans being made by the Hispanic community to address the event.
“We are all hoping this was just one incident,” she said.
Ramirez was a father of three who was in the U.S. illegally and had ties to Mexico. Palubinsky said there is no way of knowing how many illegal immigrants reside in the borough, but doesn’t believe the fact that Ramirez was an illegal immigrant made any difference to the people who beat him.
“We are dealing with rumors and assumptions. We don’t know what actually happened until the police complete the investigation,” Palubinsky said.
Mayor Joseph O’Neill Jr. also believed the beating was an isolated incident.
“I don’t believe it was any major thing against Hispanics,” O’Neill said Tuesday. “I don’t believe it was gang activity and I hope it was an accident. I don’t believe any group of young people could do this intentionally.”
O’Neill also said he believes the police department handled the situation professionally.
“I believe they are doing the best the can and they have asked for assistance with this which I think is a good thing,” O’Neill said. “They are conducting interviews and will re-interview when those interviews are completed. At this point they are trying to get the correct information.”
O’Neill said he has lived in the borough 47 years and does not believe it is unsafe.
“We have the same problems they have in every town,” O’Neill said. “I don’t think the problems are isolated to Shenandoah.”
O’Neill said there is a greater population of Hispanics in the borough than a few years ago and there may be a greater number than in other towns, but he doesn’t believe there is a great conflict between ethnic groups.
Moyer, the investigating officer, said in the 11 years he has been on the police force, he has never witnessed what he would consider a hate crime.
“I have heard people refer to different ethnic groups by name from time to time,” Moyer said. “All ethnic groups, not just Mexicans or other Hispanics. (his son might just well be one of the kids involed)." Moyer said he does not think the incident Saturday is tied to race or that either group would consider retaliation.
“I think this was an unfortunate incident and I don’t think people have to be afraid or worry it will happen again,” he said.
MOD EDIT --- Don't do this again.

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Old Jul 18, 2008, 06:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: A man was beaten to death in my town.

Starfire things like this happen and for the first few days things can seem like they are going no where. Give it time things will come out in the open most people are good at heart and something like this is hard to cover up. Someone involved will come foward to do the right thing or someone that saw something will get up the courage to give information to the police and things will start to come together. Just hang in there things will get better if you need to talk pm me I am hear to listen. Hang in there.
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Old Jul 19, 2008, 04:39 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: A man was beaten to death in my town.

U jus' wound up provin' my point Starfire, they don' know the whole story and most likely don' have enough evidence ta make an arrest. It doesn' matter if they know who the perpetrators r, if they don' have the evidence ta make an arrest... then there is little that they can do. It could b that they r inept, incompetent, or simply bias; but from what I've read of ur article, this is may not b the case. However, I do stand by what I've said 'fore, if the victim's family believes that investigators r not handlin' the case properly, then they can appeal ta have the investigation handled by outside authorities. If they're havin' trouble wit that route, then there r other avenues which they can try, like the national news media. By makin' a national appeal, they could strengthen their stance on havin" an impartial, outside authority investigate this crime.
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