1. madara used a jutsu to split and lock a portion of his chakra
2. into the hashirama tree
3. so that this portion of his chakra could generate multiple clones of himself.
4. which means that the chakra is madara's and the physical aspect comes from hashirama.
as far as i am concerned this makes tobi a madara (chakra) made from hashirama material (mokuton).
as far as i can tell, and ive looked into many theories, these are the only ones that fit and cant be contradicted yet.
1. tobi isn't any1 we have seen yet. he's a new player in this game and not and old one with an identity crisis. i am refering to the time he said i am nobody to naruto.
2. tobi is Kagami Uchiha. kagami was part of a team that supported the second hokage right before he died. the team consisted of danzo, third hokage, and the two old advisers to the leaf. it is known that only these people knew the truth behind the demise of the uchiha clan. nothing else is known about kagami. it is never relieved if he died at all, but he would be the same age as those others on his team making him a likely choice because all those people on his team went on to be big shots.
3. tobi was created by madara before he died. it is now known that madara did not die in his battle in the "valley of the end" but instead tricked hashirama into thinking he had killed him. madara managed to steal hashiramas power(probly took his dna/blood) and thats how he was able to use wood style when he was revived by kabuto. it was also revieled that madara obtained the rinnegan before he died. one of the abilities of the rinnegan is "creation of all things". this power was demonstrated by the rikudo sage when he split the ten tails into nine tailed beasts. madara could have used this technique to create tobi probably right before he succumb to his injuries from his battle with hashirama. this also explains tobis answer to naruto when naruto asked him who are you? tobi replied im nobody. probly because he was a one of a kind creation like zetsu, with orders from madara. the endgame being "eye of the moon plan".
on a side note, i suspect madara also created zetsu sometime after his battle with hashirama. thanks to the rinnegans "creation of all things"(yin-yang release) he made zetsu with half uchiha chakra and half senju chakra. yin relates to one's spiritual energy(uchiha) and Yang relates to one's physical energy(senju). i have yet to make a complete picture with all this info but tobi made his army of white zetsu's(senju side of zetsu) using hashirama senju's cells. i am refering to the underground tree thing. im curious to see what the black zetsu is capable of.
Last edited by pauly; May 07, 2012 at 07:20 PM.
I agree with you on theory 1 and theory 3. My reason for agreeing with you is simply this: 1) is sort of a sure thing, it is the most probable because it is the simplest. The only reason I don't think it is true is because there would be no back story and all this suspense Kishi is building with this masked character would have no surprise. If the mask came off and it wasn't someone we know, we wouldn't be surprised. I think maybe it is someone that has been mentioned in some theory along the way but maybe in a way we can't connect to yet.
Your theory #3. This is the best theory I've read yet. The white zetsu seems to be light hearted and not that evil. The black zetsu seems to be coarse and evil. It would be so if he was a combination of Senju and Madara. That was such a sharp point, also in combination with the meaning of Yin and Yang and with correlation to the Rinnegan, to me is logically sound. I too don't think Tobi is Madara but perhaps like you pointed to, a clone of some sort or a creation.
Heres a question:
Why can Tobi blink in and out of time?
Why does he have some giant vacant space that he can suck you into and go into himself?
When he tore his own arm off what was that white goop?
Kishi wants us to be stirred up about Tobi. I've thought that maybe Tobi came from the future and is purposefully doing this to eventually unite the countries and bring peace. I've even thought maybe he's some kind of entity, like the embodiment of all the hatred and evil of men created by that energy. I've also thought maybe he's like the Devil in Naruto world.
One thing we know: Though he seems brilliant, calculated and ahead of the game, he isn't. He makes mistakes, he almost dies a couple of times and now Naruto is flat out ruining his plan right in front of his face. What's the deal? Apparently Tobi is as human as everyone else in that he isn't perfect.
So, I watched a couple of episodes and added some stuff up.
Tobi "We haven't met since the Uchiha incident." Episode 208
Sasuke "How did you get those eyes on your arm?" Episode 209
Danzo "Through various means, it would take too long to describe." Episode 209
Danzo "Damn Itachi. It seems he revealed everything to you before he died"
Note: Episode 209 10:20 *Tobi sitting on bridge observing Danzo vs Sasuke - Tobi's right sleeve blows in the wind - Arm didn't regrow immediately*
Sasuke "How many Uchiha did you kill to get that arm?" Episode 211
Danzo "It was Itachi who enabled me to get it" Episode 211
Tobi "Danzo didn't get to use Shisui's eye" Episode 211 (Danzo took Shisui's eye?!)
Tobi "Danzo. I'm taking Shisui's eye" Episode 211
So, Tobi telling Sasuke about how the elders ordered Itachi to kill the Uchiha clan was true, at least to some degree anyway. We can assume for now that Tobi is twisting the truth to however he sees fit in order to manipulate Sasuke, probably to steal his perfect eyes in order to control the Ten Tails.
"We haven't met since the Uchiha incident." Oh boy, that's a funny detail. He didn't say "I haven't seen you since..." So he not only knew what was going on, he might have been in on it. Tobi tells Sasuke about how he helped Itachi that night. Notice how when he is operating on Sasuke there is a wall of Sharingan eyes, that's interesting. Where did he get them? The plot thickens.
So, Danzo took advantage of the massacre to collect the eyes in order to have them implanted by Orochimaru? That's interesting. Now, Danzo has Shisui's eye, how? Itachi claims to have killed his best friend in order to obtain more power eluding to the fact he killed Shisui. If Itachi killed Shisui why does Danzo have his eye? Who got the other eye?
Tobi is not Madara because Madara is resurrected by Edo Tensei.
Tobi is not Madara's chakra, spirit or any kind of remainder of Madara - the reason is simple: Tobi himself says "If Itachi knew everything about me, I would be dead right now." Spirits don't die, chakra can't be killed and a "shell" or remainder of a person can't physically be killed nor would the being worry about such a thing.
Tobi is older that is for sure, he has the same lines on his face the other older characters are drawn with. When Tobi reveals himself to Sasuke you see the line beneath his eye, Danzo has it, the Chief Samurai has it, the elders have it, the Third had it, etc...
Tobi is not a Zetsu, his arm stays removed for the duration of the fight from the moment it's infected with the nano-beetles to the point where he sucks himself into his eye and leaves after Danzo's curse mark explodes and attempts to seal both Tobi and Sasuke.
Danzo obviously knew Tobi was planning something very dangerous to the ninja world and mind you (Danzo did not stick around to hear that obnoxious speech at the summit!)
So Tobi is a space-time ninja and a better space-time ninja than anyone else. Interesting.
Tobi was able to read the tablet which requires all forms of Sharingan and Rinnegan to be able to read it fully.
Tobi is a master manipulator and so far appears to be totally human, not just human but less skilled in Jutsu and Tai-Jutsu than many other ninjas. The only real kill factor of Tobi is his ability to suck you up into some kind of "limbo" much like Itachi's ability to manipulate time and space.
Tobi's knowledge is extreme! But, Orochimaru even knew as much if not more than Tobi about lots of other things, which would lead me to believe Tobi has specifically been investigating one subject and one subject only, the Sage of Six Paths and the affiliation the Uchiha have with the story. This leads me to believe that Tobi is in fact a Uchiha, not Madara, not Shisui, not a Zetsu, not Kakashi, not Obito. I MIGHT believe he is Fugaku but that wouldn't make sense that he sympathizes with Itachi when Itachi wiped out the Uchiha and foiled Fugaku's coup.
Tobi is a Uchiha.
Tobi is human.
Tobi is old.
Tobi needs to manipulate others to do his dirty work.
Madara didn't manipulate anyone, he did his own dirt. Tobi isn't as powerful as he would like us to believe. The Tsuchi-kage pointed that out at the summit.
Tobi can't predict the future.
Tobi has no real control over any situations.
Tobi needed Akatsuki to do all of the work, why?
Tobi sent out Akatsuki to get the beasts, he knew where they were and could suck them into his hole and vanish.
Something doesn't add up. We're gonna find out soon, but I bet it's not anything any of us would expect, that's for sure.
the mask man AKA "TOBI"
he is OBITO... kakashi's childhood comrade and friend.. let me finish peps....
there's so many UCHIHA to be mentioned with in all naruto's whole history.. but who has the most confusing death of all uchiha's?
1. Uchiha MADARA - he is dead!! how? the only possible truth about his death is that his soul had been summoned by kabuto through orochimarus technique "endo tensie"(or the 2nd hokages original jutsu). So how does endo tensie work? You need a matching DNA, a living vessel and the person's soul you want to revive (uchiha madara in this case). So madara got revived and he is fighting the 5 kages right now. so he cant be alive at the same time being summoned through "endo tensie". remember when orochimaru tried to summoned the 4th hokage, it didnt work because the 4ths soul is lock away in the belly of the death GOD.
2. Uchiha Shisui - he is dead - why? danzu took his right eye and he gave his left eye to itachi before itachi took shisui's life. so he is dead.. period.
3. all Uchiha except sasuke is dead - why? itachi killed them all. so basically every character in the story mentioned that all uchiha is dead except itachi and sasuke.
4. Madara's brother - I think he is dead because he gave both of his eyes to madara and his life for uchiha clans sake.
5.. Uchiha Obito - why he is not dead? lets see, the last time he was seen alive was when he gave his left eye to itachi thru RIN's medical expertise. a huge boulder pinned down obito's body including the right side of his face? there's the hint.. it didn't say that his right eye was useless or even crushed, but it was his left eye was easier to gave out.. correct? so the whole place blows out lil itachi and rin got out in time and everything went crushing down on a rubble (so this is were everybody thought that obito is dead). how can we be sure? knowing kabuto came to a great deal of ordeal looking for special DNA to revive great sets of ninjas, why he didn't find obitos body or even his DNA? he went far from getting old dna such as madara with no problem at all, dna's of kage' which is i know by far older than that in obito's time line when he was alive. I think kabuto knows who is the real masked man is.
remember when sasuke burned madaras masked when they were inside the hideout explaining and brainwashing sasuke.. the masked guy's face is kindly wrinkly or scarred, we cant really tell. when he fought konan, his ,masked got damaged and ripped off, but with he has a left eye, he used it for IZANAGI which in return the left eye permanently closes, where did this left eye came from?, we all know that the masked guy has a lot of sharingan eyes preserve and reserve into his hide out.
So this masked guy only have one whole into his masked and its the right side .. come to think of it.. why is he using only his right eye? and what does this masked guy has in common with itachi's left eye? they have the same jutsu, uses dimensional techniques, sadly itachi cant move form one place to another because his body alone cant take it he is not uchiha at all. (got it?) the masked guy told sasuke where the part that i think he is telling the truth when he went back in time to get all the facts and then twisted it all to brain wash sasuke. TOBI is playin a great deal of lies and he is playing it really good.. he manage to fool the whole ninja world even the whole akatsuki.. even itachi.. the best ninja ever lol.
so here is the list of my evidences:
1. itachis left sharingan (mangekyo "kamui")
2. Masked guy's right eye with same jutsu as itachi's
3. Masked Guy's right face ..wrinkles or scars?
4. Kabuto's endo tensie reviving the real madara.
5. OBITO's inexplicable death or the writer and creator want us to believe. hahhaha
the type of mangekyo sharigan bet kakashi's left eye and the right eye of the masked man mangekyo's .. its the same. using same eye jutsu is enough for me to believe the masked man is obito. any pair of sharingan eyes should have the same technique who ever is the wielder.
hahhaha.. have a good day ...
Last edited by bigchaiz; Jul 19, 2012 at 03:58 AM.
i just want to say i want know the battle of naruto and tobi.kabuto is already appeared in ten chapter untill naruto 587