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Thread: 60 Years later. (The bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.)

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    Re: 60 Years later. (The bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Metsuki Anba
    The U.S. wanted a quick solution to a problem that could be solved just as well with a little more time and effort.
    I fully understand what you mean, and I give you my condolences. However, "little more time and effort" means thousands of more American lives at stake. Granted, America choose the easy way out to save more Americans, but it's war, what do you expect?

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    Re: 60 Years later. (The bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Metsuki Anba
    So you think that the atomic bombs were a better solution than invasion of Japan? I think you have flawed logic. You could never have known how many people would have died in an invasion unless it had actually happened. Things like that are never predictable.
    Have you ever seen the geographical structure of Japan?

    Of course I can not know how many would have died but as a reference, check how many casualties it took to conquer Okinawa, and then multiply it a couple of times.

    So yes, I am pretty convinced that an invasion of Japan itself would have cost alot more human lives than the two a-bombs combined. Not to mention the damage of the country.

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    Re: 60 Years later. (The bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.)

    Grumble Grumble Grumble

    There is simply no doubt, that had the planned invasion of Japan had taken place, the casualties on both side would have been horrendous. Just before the announced surrender of Japan, the local Civil Defence had high school and grade school children practicing to stab the enemy with bamboo spears, and to wear explosive satchel charges to become 'human bombs'

    Now as far as the actual motivations for the use of the Bomb. At this point in WWII, because of the goverment propaganda used by both sides, the popular justification at the time was a race war, plain and simple. The idea of 'Not using the bomb' for humanitarian reasons was seriously considered. Also, at the time, the long term effects of radiation and nuclear fallout was unknown by the military and never considered a factor in the use of the Bomb.

    It is obvious from the historical records that the use of the bomb was rushed. The 'Little Boy' bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima was a enriched Uranium based bomb, while the 'Fat Man' bomb used on Nagasaki was a Plutonium implosion device. But only one bomb was tested at the Trinity site, which was the implosion device. This means that the first bomb dropped on Hiroshima was a design THAT WAS NEVER TESTED!!! Now when the Manhatten Projected was started, it was budgeted as the most expensive military project in the history of the world. During WWII, the only military project to exceed the Manhatten project in costs was the 'Euro Bomber' development which led to the development of the B-29 (which dropped the bomb) and the backup B-32. So what was the motivation for deploying untested, the most expensive weapon of the war??? The general thoughts are...

    1. To get Japan to surrender before Russia entered the war against Japan, and keep it from capturing Japanese occupied territory. (This was unsuccessful, as Russia did declare war against Japan in the closing weeks of the war, and seized a lot of territory)

    2. To influence Russia on the strength of US military power. At the time, in negotiations for control of the captured territories in Europe, Russia was already consolidating control of Eastern Europe, and setting up the boundries that would later be known as the 'Iron Curtain'
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    Re: 60 Years later. (The bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.)

    As much as how quickly that bomb ended the war, I wouldn't be too proud of it either. Japan became a test object for the US to show how powerful they can be to the Soviet Union at that time. On top of that it was Japan's civilian that was the victim of the A-bomb not the soldiers that brutally treated my ancestors during the second World War.

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    Re: 60 Years later. (The bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.)

    Quote Originally Posted by LenMiyata
    Grumble Grumble Grumble

    There is simply no doubt, that had the planned invasion of Japan had taken place, the casualties on both side would have been horrendous. Just before the announced surrender of Japan, the local Civil Defence had high school and grade school children practicing to stab the enemy with bamboo spears, and to wear explosive satchel charges to become 'human bombs'

    Now as far as the actual motivations for the use of the Bomb. At this point in WWII, because of the goverment propaganda used by both sides, the popular justification at the time was a race war, plain and simple. The idea of 'Not using the bomb' for humanitarian reasons was seriously considered. Also, at the time, the long term effects of radiation and nuclear fallout was unknown by the military and never considered a factor in the use of the Bomb.

    It is obvious from the historical records that the use of the bomb was rushed. The 'Little Boy' bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima was a enriched Uranium based bomb, while the 'Fat Man' bomb used on Nagasaki was a Plutonium implosion device. But only one bomb was tested at the Trinity site, which was the implosion device. This means that the first bomb dropped on Hiroshima was a design THAT WAS NEVER TESTED!!! Now when the Manhatten Projected was started, it was budgeted as the most expensive military project in the history of the world. During WWII, the only military project to exceed the Manhatten project in costs was the 'Euro Bomber' development which led to the development of the B-29 (which dropped the bomb) and the backup B-32. So what was the motivation for deploying untested, the most expensive weapon of the war??? The general thoughts are...

    1. To get Japan to surrender before Russia entered the war against Japan, and keep it from capturing Japanese occupied territory. (This was unsuccessful, as Russia did declare war against Japan in the closing weeks of the war, and seized a lot of territory)

    2. To influence Russia on the strength of US military power. At the time, in negotiations for control of the captured territories in Europe, Russia was already consolidating control of Eastern Europe, and setting up the boundries that would later be known as the 'Iron Curtain'
    Thank you.

    Now, on to a different aspect. Combining the bombs with Japanese thoughts, films, manga and anime.

    I'm always interested in that subject, I've read that the nuclear terror left a big scar in the mind of many japanese people. Films like Godzilla or manga/anime like Barefoot Gen are obvious but it also said that many post WWII stories were seriously influenced by the attacks.
    Especially the stories that had some sort of apocalypse/armageddon in them.

    Please don't be shy to give your thoughts people, don't be intimidated by the intellectual capacity of people like LenMiyata.

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    Re: 60 Years later. (The bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.)

    Feh, the atomic strikes were efficient. Not exactly without consequence, mind you, but... it was the shortest distance between two points, so to speak.

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    Re: 60 Years later. (The bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.)

    Now I know not a great deal about history so I'll keep my response to the first point fairly brief. Horrible things happen in wars, but, even through America had their reasons for what they did, I think they went about it in slightly the wrong way. Since as far as my knowledge goes, the Japanese didn't target the general American public, just the miltary.
    That's all I'll say, since I'm neither American, nor Japanese or lived in that time period, I can never truly understand any of the reasons why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassun
    Thank you.

    Now, on to a different aspect. Combining the bombs with Japanese thoughts, films, manga and anime.

    I'm always interested in that subject, I've read that the nuclear terror left a big scar in the mind of many japanese people. Films like Godzilla or manga/anime like Barefoot Gen are obvious but it also said that many post WWII stories were seriously influenced by the attacks.
    Especially the stories that had some sort of apocalypse/armageddon in them.

    Please don't be shy to give your thoughts people, don't be intimidated by the intellectual capacity of people like LenMiyata.
    Indeed, the apocalypse theme in Anime is a used alot, in fact it'll be safe to say that's is almost it's own genre. I can name a handful of anime that deal with this kind of theme. Even scenes of atom bomb like explosions have appear in anime like Akira for instance, and Evangelion (in the form of the N2 Mines)
    And of course, Grave of the Fireflies...

    But also, I finished reading the Battle Royale novel about two weeks back, where it takes place in an alternative Japan that seemily never lost WWII. Japan is a facist nation with a dictorship and anything American is banned.
    Of course it is fiction (very extreme fiction) but it's something to ponder.
    Last edited by Hikari Sakurai; Aug 05, 2005 at 05:48 AM.

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    Re: 60 Years later. (The bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.)

    The Japanese infact did target, among other things, American Cities along the the Pacific Coastline during a five month period in 1942. They employed high altitude balloons, which would be carried by upper level winds to the US Mainland, where these device would "hopefully" drop incendiary devices onto cities and farms. These attacks were utterly ineffective though (as I have read only 6 people died as a result of these devices). However, this does indicate the Japanese intention to strike American civillian targets during the war.

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