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Thread: Choice? Or born with it?

  1. #49
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    Re: Choice? Or born with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by frr_vegeta
    Being attracted to members of your own gender has not been and will never be a choice, because we don't "choose" to be attracted to someone, we just are.
    I dissagree (yes, I know, big shock). I have had personal experiance with "turning off" an attraction to someone. In high school for reasons of my own I decided I didn't want to be attracted to someone anymore and mentally turned it off quite sucessfully. I will admitt it is more difficult at times then others but it is possible.

    IMO this belief that we cannot control who we are attracted to is a societal conditioning and not reality, not to mention a poor excuse for a lack of self control. It's like saying "I couln't help but steal that __", or more immediately, "I couldn't help myself, it's not my fault I cheated on my __(fill in name of spouse, boy/girlfriend, bussiness, taxes etc.)".

    But then as I have observed before self control and discipline are not popular concepts in todays society so I'm not surprised some consider them impossibilities.


    As for being gay or alcoholic being in the same catagory? Only when they are both being mentioned in terms of the question of genetics vs choice. And yes, they don't really belong in the same catagory because as I observed before the idea of genetic prediposition (unlike phycologically) with homosexuality has not been born out in fact.

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  2. #50
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    Re: Choice? Or born with it?

    I believe that if you wanted to you could become "unattracted" to someone if you really intended to, mostly by digging up enough negative qualities in them. But for the most part, it's just like you're favorite food. Everyone likes something different. Some people like blondes, some people like redheads. some people like big butts, others prefer a nice nose. Some people love carrots, others hate them. I feel the same type of thing goes along with gender preferences. Sure you can alter what you feel, but I believe that would again, be lying to yourself.

    I like women. I'm sure if I pushed myself hard enough I could learn to hate them, or learn to like men....but the fact of the matter is.....I originally liked women, that was who I was before I went and forced something else upon myself. I have basically changed who I am.

  3. #51
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    Re: Choice? Or born with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by frr_vegeta
    I feel the only crime, or sin if you will....would be for someone who is attracted to members of their own gender to force themselves to have sex with a member of the other gender, in essence lying to themselves.
    By that logic, the man (or woman) who really, really, likes alcohol but forces themselves to become a teatotaller to save their marriage is sinning and lying to themselves.
    Sorry, but I don't buy it.
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  4. #52
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    Re: Choice? Or born with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by frr_vegeta
    I believe that if you wanted to you could become "unattracted" to someone if you really intended to, mostly by digging up enough negative qualities in them. But for the most part, it's just like you're favorite food. Everyone likes something different. Some people like blondes, some people like redheads. some people like big butts, others prefer a nice nose. Some people love carrots, others hate them. I feel the same type of thing goes along with gender preferences. Sure you can alter what you feel, but I believe that would again, be lying to yourself.

    I like women. I'm sure if I pushed myself hard enough I could learn to hate them, or learn to like men....but the fact of the matter is.....I originally liked women, that was who I was before I went and forced something else upon myself. I have basically changed who I am.
    See this is what i was trying to say. Thanks for helping me out.

    So in other words differences in the brain between sexually active adults is result of their activities instead of the activities being a result of the brain.
    Well the behavier to want to engage in those activitys had to come from somewhere in the brain. So i guess your saying also someone isnt born a bad seed??

  5. #53
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    Re: Choice? Or born with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by teddeler
    By that logic, the man (or woman) who really, really, likes alcohol but forces themselves to become a teatotaller to save their marriage is sinning and lying to themselves.
    Sorry, but I don't buy it.
    You don't buy what? There is a world of difference between homosexuality and alcoholism alcoholism is a disease for one. Loveing men and loving alcohol don't realate in the slightest. It's only a shame this thread tries to couple them both together.

  6. #54
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    Re: Choice? Or born with it?

    As far as homosexuality is concerned, I mentioned earlier that I believe tendencies to gravitate towards some things more than others are indeed apparent. I do not believe that biology plays a role; at least, I do not believe it's a significant one, as Agent Orange previously noted. Rather, I tend to side more with the argument that psychology is a far greater determining factor.

    For instance, my third grade teacher was a terribly abusive woman. All throughout the year, my classmates and I suffered a seemingly constant barrage of degrading remarks. We were regularly told we were stupid and worthless, among other things. I vividly remember handing in homework assignments only to be told they were never received; as a result, I was called a liar on multiple occasions.

    On one particular occasion, I recall being yelled at after school with a friend of mine. My mom, wondering why I didn't come home at my regular time came to get me and when she walked into the classroom our teacher's tone immediately changed. She still mentions catching my teacher off guard to this day.

    Eventually, I (and some others) began to suffer some emotional problems. My grades began to drop, I began to stay home often, and my desire to learn decayed. For the next three years, I was in counseling and was put on medications to treat my depression. From her talks with other parents, my mom later revealed to me that I wasn't the only one. It was so bad that we even began to accept that we truly were stupid and worthless, though this wasn't the case.

    I expect it's the same way with homosexuality.

    I remember one guy in the seventh grade who always had a cheery, upbeat disposition. My friends and I thought his actions and attitudes were pretty girly, so we often ridiculed him calling him a faggot. Of course, we weren't the only ones. He was made a subject of laughter by many of my fellow classmates, especially those in PE. This continued for the next two years and, by the time junior year in highschool came around, he was a self-proclaimed homosexual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akurei Kakudo
    ok. i should really post to this, one god does not give us talaents unless you truly think so and i do not. do not ask me i will just not say. but god gives us one thing, a human body, thats it! we write on apper what our names will be, what family we will live with, and how we are born, also who our family will be. thats it. once born into the earth world (ours current) we begin our paths on life. we choose to do something. god never chooses for us. so if we are addicted to drinking or w.e is not his doing, if god loves us why would he want us this way? if he wishes us to live a great live, why would he do this to us? no he does not give it to us. every path we choose can lead to that problem and others. we choose it, not god. if god did that there would be no people like that ever. give that a thought much?


    and yes this is my opinon
    I disagree with what you said about our talents.

    Has anything ever come naturally to you? Have you ever found a greater interest in doing one thing over another? What are your passions and motivations?

    God uses such things to help us build up our talents in life. Past experiences, hobbies, and opinions are all given to us by God to be used for helping others and bringing glory to God.

    Quote Originally Posted by frr_vegeta
    This being the case, explain to me how it is a choice? And also, explain if you will, how god has anything to do with the creation of a baby. I feel that the creation of a baby is purly the fusion of male and female gametes, God doesn't get involved. He may have designed the original humans to be with eachother (Adam and Eve [And if you want to get down and dirty Lilith who was supposedly cast aside]) However since then our bodies have remained pretty much the same, but the mind has not.
    Have you seen the Tim Burton remake of Charlie & The Chocolate Factory? If so, do you remember the revelation about Willy Wonka's father near the end of the film? That was easily one of the greatest representations of God's character I've ever seen from the secular media.

    If we truly don't want God in our lives, I believe he'll respect our wishes, though he'll use occurrence and circumstance to present an opportunity to return. Nonetheless, he's freakishly - and I mean borderline disturbingly concerned for us. For "You made all the delicate parts of my body and knit me together in my mother's womb. Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is marvelous - how well I know it. You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed." (Psalm chapter 139, verses 13-16) And "What is the price of two sparrows - one copper coin? But not a single sparrow can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it. And the very hairs on your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are more valuable to God than a whole flock of sparrows." (Matthew chapter 10, verses 29-31)

    Quote Originally Posted by kastelic4444
    It makes sence to me. Why are some ppl shy, some are agressive, some are mean and evil, and some are so good. The brain determines how we feel, behave, interpret, and see the world. One will see the same world this way, and other will see it totally differently.
    Is that to say that one who has acquired a taste for some thing like rape and murder a la Ted Bundy is justified due to desire? Contrary to popular belief, we aren't defined by our desires, and we needn't be a slave to them.

    (I know I wasn't born into this world with a bong and a porn mag!)

    [ Romans 1:6: And you are included among those Gentiles who have been called to belong to Jesus Christ. ]

  7. #55
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    Re: Choice? Or born with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by frr_vegeta
    You don't buy what? There is a world of difference between homosexuality and alcoholism alcoholism is a disease for one. Loveing men and loving alcohol don't realate in the slightest. It's only a shame this thread tries to couple them both together.
    We're talking about choice vs. predisposition. They relate in that different people have different predispositions.

    Should we be ruled by our predispositions regardless of what they are? If you choose to go with a predisposition because you don't feel there's anything wrong with it that's another matter entirely but don't criticize someone else for choosing to act against their predispositions because they feel their life will be better that way. It's a personal judgment call.

    I, personally, appear to be predisposed towards posting on forums. I can't find any other reason for this compulsion.
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  8. #56
    Ecchi Enthusiast Classic Donkey Kong Champion, Balloon Bomber Champion, Fishing Impossible Champion, Festival Of History : Archery Champion, Dare Devil Champion, Little Monkey Does Champion, Dragon Champion, Barty Champion, Cheesy Champion, Chicken Attack Champion, Moo Lander Champion, Hang Stan Champion, Hangaroo Champion, Sentenced Champion, Canadair Champion Miroku4444 may be famous one day Miroku4444 may be famous one day Miroku4444's Avatar
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    Re: Choice? Or born with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by obliteration
    As far as homosexuality is concerned, I mentioned earlier that I believe tendencies to gravitate towards some things more than others are indeed apparent. I do not believe that biology plays a role; at least, I do not believe it's a significant one, as Agent Orange previously noted. Rather, I tend to side more with the argument that psychology is a far greater determining factor.

    For instance, my third grade teacher was a terribly abusive woman. All throughout the year, my classmates and I suffered a seemingly constant barrage of degrading remarks. We were regularly told we were stupid and worthless, among other things. I vividly remember handing in homework assignments only to be told they were never received; as a result, I was called a liar on multiple occasions.

    On one particular occasion, I recall being yelled at after school with a friend of mine. My mom, wondering why I didn't come home at my regular time came to get me and when she walked into the classroom our teacher's tone immediately changed. She still mentions catching my teacher off guard to this day.

    Eventually, I (and some others) began to suffer some emotional problems. My grades began to drop, I began to stay home often, and my desire to learn decayed. For the next three years, I was in counseling and was put on medications to treat my depression. From her talks with other parents, my mom later revealed to me that I wasn't the only one. It was so bad that we even began to accept that we truly were stupid and worthless, though this wasn't the case.

    I expect it's the same way with homosexuality.

    I remember one guy in the seventh grade who always had a cheery, upbeat disposition. My friends and I thought his actions and attitudes were pretty girly, so we often ridiculed him calling him a faggot. Of course, we weren't the only ones. He was made a subject of laughter by many of my fellow classmates, especially those in PE. This continued for the next two years and, by the time junior year in highschool came around, he was a self-proclaimed homosexual.
    Ok, explain when a person has had none of these bad things happen to them, but is depressed anyway. They have an awesome life, but still manage to be depressed anyhow. Its a chemical imbalance.

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