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Thread: Christmas Songs Removed From Some Schools

  1. #17
    Otaku Juggernaut may be famous one day Juggernaut may be famous one day Juggernaut's Avatar
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    I agree with angelan, couldnt have said it better myself.

  2. #18
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Well said indeed Angelan.

    I just thought I would point out however that the belief that the Constitiution says there should be a "seperation of church and state", is actually a modern myth. The only time religion is mentioned in the Constitution is in:
    Article. VI.
    Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
    The rule on religion actually comes from the Bill of Rights.
    Amendment I

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
    That's it. No seperation, no you can't have it. Only that people cannot be prevented from holding an office based on their religion (or lack of) and that Congress cannot make any laws establishing a Federal sponsered religion or prohibite anyone from practicing their religion. (Such as telling someone they can't *cough* sing christmas songs.)

    The reason it is important to point out the "laws establishing a Federal sponsered religion" is because at the time of both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights several states did have a State sponsered religion. They were perfectly legal and still are unless the State has laws against it.

    Bill of Rights
    Amendment X

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

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  3. #19
    Newbie teh s uck may be famous one day teh s uck may be famous one day teh s uck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna
    That's it. No seperation, no you can't have it. Only that people cannot be prevented from holding an office based on their religion (or lack of) and that Congress cannot make any laws establishing a Federal sponsered religion or prohibite anyone from practicing their religion. (Such as telling someone they can't *cough* sing christmas songs.)
    So by your logic, it is therefore acceptable for a superintendent of schools to tell someone that they should NOT sing Christmas carols, since only Congress is forbidden from passing laws regarding religion. There is nothing under the Constitution, according to your reading, that would prevent that. In fact, there is no place in the Constitution that would prevent the banning of religion.

    And just to make myself clear, I'm not naive or stupid; I live in the U.S., which is a Christian-based culture. My kid's going to ask why we do not have a tree like his friends, who Jesus is (and unfortunately, why some little snot says we killed him), what Ramadan is, etc. , and I will answer them with as much respect, yet truth, as possible. The point is that I will be making that decision, not the school, not the government, and not the tyranny of the majority.

  4. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by teh s uck
    So by your logic, it is therefore acceptable for a superintendent of schools to tell someone that they should NOT sing Christmas carols, since only Congress is forbidden from passing laws regarding religion. There is nothing under the Constitution, according to your reading, that would prevent that. In fact, there is no place in the Constitution that would prevent the banning of religion.

    And just to make myself clear, I'm not naive or stupid; I live in the U.S., which is a Christian-based culture. My kid's going to ask why we do not have a tree like his friends, who Jesus is (and unfortunately, why some little snot says we killed him), what Ramadan is, etc. , and I will answer them with as much respect, yet truth, as possible. The point is that I will be making that decision, not the school, not the government, and not the tyranny of the majority.
    Thats fine, but you should infringe on our right to sing them in school. Thats plain censorship to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by angelan
    If it freaks you out when your child comes home to ask you who Jesus is, you need to open up a little. No one is out to brainwash you....only you can allow someone to do it TO you. If you don't believe....it is nothing more than a simple tune to you. There are many mainstream songs with religious undertones or sexual undertones....no one is out to censor/ban them (not in a big way anyway).
    I guess you didn't read angelan post.......See Above^
    Last edited by Miroku4444; Nov 30, 2004 at 05:23 PM.

  5. #21
    Newbie nospheratus may be famous one day nospheratus may be famous one day nospheratus's Avatar
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    Angry

    Why band song with religious word? At the start, Christmas is a religious celebration. It is totaly normal to have religious word in it.

    If you dont want the chrismas song in school, remove Chrismas from the school and remove the Holy Day from the school calendar.

    Yea... I have forgot, Chrismas is now a comersial day... gift... gift... gift... only gift... we have forgot the reason for Chrismas... The birth of Jesus.

    Me, I'm not a Christian. The bible is only a big fiction story for me. But I love all the traditional Chrismas song.

    Please, let the children appreciate the Chrismas song.

  6. #22
    Legendary Otaku Snake Champion, Zelda Champion, Crazy Koala Champion, Minigolf Champion, Concentrate Champion, Guess 5 Champion, Batting Champ Champion, Beach Ball Control Champion, Bookworm Champion, Wacky Word Wiz Champion, Fight Fight 3 Champion, Spinner's Luck Champion, Traffic Jam Champion, Yeti Pengu Throw Champion Legend is making a name for themselves Legend is making a name for themselves Legend is making a name for themselves Legend's Avatar
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    if those folks are so against it, they shouldnt use american currency or celebrate christmas, or go to baseball games (cuz they have God bless american in the 7th inning)

    'Cause you give me something / That makes me scared, alright / This could be nothing / But I'm willing to give it a try / Please give me something
    'Cause someday I might call you from my heart

  7. #23
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teh s uck
    So by your logic, it is therefore acceptable for a superintendent of schools to tell someone that they should NOT sing Christmas carols, since only Congress is forbidden from passing laws regarding religion. There is nothing under the Constitution, according to your reading, that would prevent that. In fact, there is no place in the Constitution that would prevent the banning of religion.

    And just to make myself clear, I'm not naive or stupid; I live in the U.S., which is a Christian-based culture. My kid's going to ask why we do not have a tree like his friends, who Jesus is (and unfortunately, why some little snot says we killed him), what Ramadan is, etc. , and I will answer them with as much respect, yet truth, as possible. The point is that I will be making that decision, not the school, not the government, and not the tyranny of the majority.
    Good question, but you're missing two points:

    One, public school is a federal institution and answerable to congress. If a private school wishes to ban singing Christmas songs it is perfectly legal. A Federal institution however is held to federal laws including that they cannot make any laws establishing a Federal sponsered religion or prohibite anyone from practicing their religion. That means they are not to be partial to any one religion but neither can they forbid the practice of it. In otherwords, allowing children to sing Christmas songs is not against the Bill of Rights but telling them they cannot is.

    Two, yes there is a law against the banning of religion, it's in the Bill of Rights. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Most States (that I know of) have similar laws at the state level. Even when some of the States did have a State sponsered religion I don't believe it was illegal to belong to a different religion. I'm not a historian however. My brother is if you want me to ask him.


    P.S. I assume by your comment that you are Jewish. If so instead of calling someone elses child a little snot why don't you educate him. The children of promise have such a rich heritage it is a pity any time someone doesn't understand. We all have something to gain by learning to understand each other. After all belief and understanding are two very seperate things.

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  8. #24
    Newbie Takeno may be famous one day Takeno may be famous one day Takeno's Avatar
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    Cool

    I don't think thats bad I never like singing them songs any way suck for you guys.

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