View Poll Results: Do you belive in god?

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  • Yes.

    29 65.91%
  • No.

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  • Who or what is god O_o ?

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Thread: Do you belive in god?

  1. #73
    Newbie SamIam may be famous one day SamIam may be famous one day
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    Re: Do you belive in god?

    chiefblackhammer:

    Very thought provoking but fundamentally flawed, just because a “god” knows everything doesn’t mean it is fore destined to be one way.

    SamIam

    If something is "destined" then greater knowledge allows for greater predictive accuracy of the "path" to the known outcome ... absolute knowledge supports totally accurate prediction in every case.




    chiefblackhammer:

    It just means that he already knows the out come.

    SamIam:

    Well, depending on how much this entity knows, it can mean that it "knows" the outcome ... but to know just that, as the limit, then that presupposes less than omniscient knowledge.




    chiefblackhammer:

    I know the outcome of every video game I have every played, does it mean after I have this knowledge I will not play the game again because I know the outcome? No, the fun is in the playing of a game not the outcome. Or a movie, how many times have you watched it more than once?

    SamIam:

    I think the difference here stems from how we use the term Omnicient ... in the case of the hypothetical gameplayer "who knows the outcome" ... and thus finds entertainment in the variation of gameplay (not the outcome) ... vs. a being who
    understands every aspect of this game ... along with every aspect of the surrounding environment and thus the very path to the outcome ... along with the outcome of course (neither would be in doubt with omnicience)




    chiefblackhammer:

    Did you still get enjoyment from that movie, even though you knew the outcome? Much the same way if I know you love apple pie and I bake 3 pies, one of which is apple and the other two something else. If I know you are going to pick the apple pie does that mean I controlled your free will to not pick the other two? No I just already knew the out come. I say “god” is a He since I am a Christian and the Bible states that God is a He.

    SamIam:

    Do I watch movies more than once for enjoyment, actually I do on occasion ... but keep in mind that my context is as a human with imperfect knowledge and a (good) but not absolute memory. Now to reitereate my point above ... as humans, your metaphor is spot on ... but that is due to our limits in imperfect and imcomplete knowledge ... now a being with absolute and total knowledge would (or should) know everything about every aspect to this particular scenario ... not only should this god know which pie I took or ate, but all the steps involved in the creation of the planet with all the elements which directly and indirectly lead to my birth ... which lead to my friendship with the baker ... to how I got to the front door ... which hand on the doorknob ... what I saw first, what I thought ... which heartbeat I was on ... in short everything about everything due to the absolute knowledge of such an intended design.

    ... and thus ... intention, knowledge and execution being absolute ... means that such an entity literally knows what its creation will do at anytime or place because ... just as a hypothetical engineer has the ability to state what an engineered device will do based upon intent and conscious design. Therefore, one could claim that a god of infinite knowledge who created the universe and knew concretely every aspect and implication of said universe in its workings and interactions at all levels ... that by completion ratifies and confirms its design with total assurity of outcome. Therefore, such a being not only knows that I took the apple pie, but by premeditative design intended me to take the apple pie (per intent by conscious design).

    As to apparent gender, I plead no contest (actually I suspected as much per bible descriptors) but ... I find it interesting in the thought process behind most individuals acceptance of gender ... but as you say, the bible states "he" and that is the context by which you describe "him" ... as for myself, being agnostic and prone to questioning ... I suppose I feel more comfortable with a genderless descriptor ... due to the fact, that in all honesty, I could not say either way.

    To recap ... This being does not "only" know the outcome, it "knows" its universal design absolutely ... to the point of perfect pedictability at any given point (with any element or elements) along the chronology of this universe ... and since it is following its own intended design, these elements follow the proscribed path of the divine designers intent ... and so, the illusion of freewill.

    ... but in the end, I suppose it boils down to semantics in the term "omniscience" ... as I am using the term, as "absolute and total knowledge of everything ..." change this definition and you change the scope of the answer.

    ... and that is why I personally favor the notion of the possibility of a less than omnicient god ... because in my view this would allow for the "free will" that is mentioned in various religious texts as opposed to the manifestation of "design intent"


    Sam
    Last edited by SamIam; Jan 02, 2006 at 11:10 PM.

  2. #74
    Strange Times Dark. is making a name for themselves Dark. is making a name for themselves Dark.'s Avatar
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    Re: Do you belive in god?

    Quote Originally Posted by Innerhell
    I believe that some higher power created this world and everything
    I just don't believe in organized religion like Christianity or Islam
    because (no offense to anyone), I think of it as corrupt
    it's all about the money or the popularity
    "we're better than them" bullshit
    blah blah blah

    I agree with Innerhell to a degree. I do believe in God however, but I dislike the bitterness and tension between different views of basically the same thing. I especially dislike the division of Christianity and how retarded some people can be about it. I don't feel overly confortable in most churchs, even among friends. I never feel relaxed, only rigidness and tension, like if I don't agree with something they do I'll be shunned. It's dispicable when they do that.


    I believe in God, but I don't need some dumbass human telling ME I'm going to to hell or not. What do they know about the lord? No more than me. I think God is a guy who should be worshipped one on one, without other groupies around telling you you're doing it wrong. But that's just me, that's how I feel.

  3. #75
    Otaku baikuza may be famous one day baikuza may be famous one day baikuza's Avatar
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    Re: Do you belive in god?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Innerhell
    I believe that some higher power created this world and everything
    I just don't believe in organized religion like Christianity or Islam
    because (no offense to anyone), I think of it as corrupt
    it's all about the money or the popularity
    "we're better than them" bullshit
    blah blah blah


    I agree with Innerhell to a degree. I do believe in God however, but I dislike the bitterness and tension between different views of basically the same thing. I especially dislike the division of Christianity and how retarded some people can be about it. I don't feel overly confortable in most churchs, even among friends. I never feel relaxed, only rigidness and tension, like if I don't agree with something they do I'll be shunned. It's dispicable when they do that.


    I believe in God, but I don't need some dumbass human telling ME I'm going to to hell or not. What do they know about the lord? No more than me. I think God is a guy who should be worshipped one on one, without other groupies around telling you you're doing it wrong. But that's just me, that's how I feel.
    Islam isn't an organization. it is a religion. the organization which is based on Islam is the organization like the other organization. it runs by human. so do not said that organized religion like Islam always pure.
    even i said like that, Islam do not teach moslem to do it. the only reason why this happen is the human isn't perfect.
    Islam is perfect, but moslem doesn't because moslem is human.
    Last edited by baikuza; Jan 03, 2006 at 02:49 AM.

  4. #76
    Banned Rave_Grip may be famous one day Rave_Grip may be famous one day Rave_Grip's Avatar
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    Re: Do you belive in god?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tivles of Light
    With the god scenerio, that brings up an interesting question of a God's priorities.
    lets say a god does exist, and this god does have the power to construct, obliterate or control a hurricane...well does that mean that NO was just low on God's priority list, or god just simply did not want to intervene to see what would happen, or that god felt like nature should just run its course? im not in disagreement with you, but these are questions that have haunted man for years...if god is truly a good god. (personally a god as to be evil as well because without evil there cannot be good and if god destroyes evil, thus good is destroyed)
    Then why is it said that there are heaven or hell? As you said, god has to be evil as well because if there is no evil then good is destroyed. Similarly, doesn't this mean that if good is destroyed, then evil is destroyed as well? Why are there many myths that the souls were sent to hell so they could be tortured and pay for bad deeds they have done, so they can be better (or be good) again? That means evil is finished and hence good is destroyed as well.
    Do you get what I'm saying? Sorry if I'm confusing anyone

  5. #77
    Otaku baikuza may be famous one day baikuza may be famous one day baikuza's Avatar
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    Re: Do you belive in god?

    @ Rave_Grip
    did you mean like yin and yang?
    it sound quite reasonable.

    @Tivles of Light
    ...if god is truly a good god. (personally a god as to be evil as well because without evil there cannot be good and if god destroyes evil, thus good is destroyed)
    reply : i agree with Rave_Grip. i do not have the same perception like you.

    this is my perception about your quote>
    good will not destroyed, even evil will destroyed. the feed back when evil destroyed is the good survive. good is unbeated by evil.
    about God. God give us trouble to ensure him that we are good enough as his human. when we pass it and do not make a fault, we win it. then we get happyness, but time always run. the other test will be faced by us. (the next is the same as before, if we can not pass it, we fault to get God faith to us. when we can pass it, we win the God faith and our degree which is the prespectife of God seeing us increase)
    yap that is the simple word, even it is still a long word.

    ensuring my word. that is only my perception about your post in my quote. so pls do not angry to me for it. if you angry i'm sorry for it.

  6. #78
    Otaku MisMelS may be famous one day MisMelS may be famous one day MisMelS's Avatar
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    Re: Do you belive in god?

    "God give us trouble to ensure him that we are good enough as his human. when we pass it and do not make a fault, we win it."

    As a Christian, I disagree. God does not give us trouble to see if we are good enough as His humans. I have a few problems with this.

    First - God does not give us trouble. Trouble, bad stuff and other things that make us depressed do [B]NOT[B] come from God. Rather they come from Saten, but God does allow them. Again, not as a way to see if we are good enough as humans, but rather to bring us closer to Him, and to teach us to rely on Him. God does not promise to take the hard times away, but he does promise to be there to help us through them.

    Well, thats my two cents on that part. Now, on to other parts.

    I don't remember who started the topic of God having to also have evil aspect about Him, but I will respond to it. God and evil CANNOT dwell together. This is why when Jesus died on the cross, and took all the sins of all the world for all of time into himself, God had to turn away. He couldn't bear to look at Jesus because he became sin personified.

    If you want to look at it in terms of good and evil, God is the epitomy of good, while Saten (the devil) is the epitomy of evil. God is Satens good counterpart, while Saten is Gods evil counterpart.

    Okay, enough for now. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, or sounded too preachy. Byes for now!

    THANK YOU SASURAIHELL!!! YOU ROCK!!!!

  7. #79
    Death is the beginning Lighting Count may be famous one day Lighting Count may be famous one day Lighting Count's Avatar
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    Re: Do you belive in god?

    I only got 1 word for all of you!

    EMMANUEL

    Code Name Wind

  8. #80
    Newbie Tivles of Light may be famous one day Tivles of Light may be famous one day Tivles of Light's Avatar
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    Re: Do you belive in god?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave_Grip
    Then why is it said that there are heaven or hell? As you said, god has to be evil as well because if there is no evil then good is destroyed. Similarly, doesn't this mean that if good is destroyed, then evil is destroyed as well? Why are there many myths that the souls were sent to hell so they could be tortured and pay for bad deeds they have done, so they can be better (or be good) again? That means evil is finished and hence good is destroyed as well.
    Do you get what I'm saying? Sorry if I'm confusing anyone
    good and evil are just names of opposites. Quality is what controls what is good and what is bad (evil) lets say this, if everything that was in shadows was gone, then there would be no more light because we wouldn't have a grasp on light because everything would be light! thus, if good was destroyed evil would be destroyed too because it wouldnt have an opposite extremity...or at least this is how i see it. i personally do not believe in a heaven or hell, perhaps you are thinking of purification? where a soul is purified of its wrong doings...sorry if i dont make any sense...this is just how i see it

    Don't ever believe you dont deserve what you desire

    <3 eternally TOL

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