Thread: Do you belive in god?

Originally Posted by SamIam

chiefblackhammer:

" I tend to lean towards the ability to do as one wishes without a forceful intervention but I am very aware of the concept that what may seem to be the proverbial "free will" may just be a "god" controlling you on strings. I mean hey who knows maybe we are all living inside one of those devices in the matrix and the world, as we know it is just a program, lol. Or maybe there are many doors but only one that opens!

Either way a great thought provoking subject but sadly no way to be certain of the answers, that is why each has their own journey (regardless of whether we or someone else maps it out)"

SamIam:

True, sometimes the illusion of choice is all we have in any case...

... and as such, this underscores the sobering realization of the difference between the child and the adult ... which is manifested in the concept of choice. The child often sees desire and capacity as the limiting factors in choice in the form of "I want" or "I can" ... The adult perspective adds another dimension as in "I want", " I can", "should I?".

I suppose it is ironic, but often knowledge and experience tend to constrain action ... that as we age and grow with this knowledge/experience ...we consequently narrow the range of actions based upon an increasingly larger perspective of causal implication.

So, what happens with immortality and the capacity for knowledge to match ... what would the implications for this entity be?

Thus, following the above trend, action attributed to this entity would be inversely proportional to the knowledge and power it contains... and by extension ...

...a being of infinite knowledge and power would do absolutely nothing at all!

Such a scenario could possibly explain the lack of apparent divine intervention ...

... or not

Sam

sorry if im intruding on yours and blackhammer's discussion, but i felt like repsonding.

with that scenerio, doesnt that apply to a god? so if what you are saying is God (entity being ominpotent and immortal) cannot do anything? so doesnt that mean that if this diadem applys that god simply creates and does not the ability to preserve or destroy or even intervene? sorry if i misunderstood or if that doesnt apply to gods, but i found that interesting.

also, that inverse proportion, seems to be missing something. if you are an adult, dont you have just as many things to choose from, and thus if you get over social expectations then you can choose those choices AND thrive with them

example, a seven year old could chose to drop out of school get on a greyhound bus and choose to live in the middle of alaska.but could a seven year old really thrive doing all those things?

doubt it, but an adult can because of the necessary experiences and ways of surviving and chosing. but would an adult really drop his/her career, sell all belongings to go live in the wilderness? doubt it since social expectations deem its unreasonable, irrational, and unproductive.

i think, the I wants, i cans and the I SHOULDs especially are contrived off of social expectiations.

TOL:

"sorry if im intruding on yours and blackhammer's discussion, but i felt like repsonding.

with that scenerio, doesnt that apply to a god? so if what you are saying is God (entity being ominpotent and immortal) cannot do anything? so doesnt that mean that if this diadem applys that god simply creates and does not the ability to preserve or destroy or even intervene? sorry if i misunderstood or if that doesnt apply to gods, but i found that interesting."

Sam:

No problem! Actually a very good point, in which I should clarify ... within this hypothetical context such an entity does indeed have the (infinite or nearly so) capacity
to intervene ... but due to its experience and knowledge may not be inclined to do so.




TOL:

"also, that inverse proportion, seems to be missing something. if you are an adult, dont you have just as many things to choose from, and thus if you get over social expectations then you can choose those choices AND thrive with them

example, a seven year old could chose to drop out of school get on a greyhound bus and choose to live in the middle of alaska.but could a seven year old really thrive doing all those things?"

Sam:

Quite true, the adult actually has progressively MORE choices due to a larger scope of understanding and capacity ... but conversely he or she has more restraint in the form of self imposed rules and external considerations ... so the net effect is that while the adult is undoubtably capable of more, he or she is usually constrained to do a conservative "less".




TOL:

"... but an adult can because of the necessary experiences and ways of surviving and chosing. but would an adult really drop his/her career, sell all belongings to go live in the wilderness? doubt it since social expectations deem its unreasonable, irrational, and unproductive.

Sam:

My point exactly, the adult would consider far more things and aspects when making choices than that of a young child ... this increased "consideration/awareness overhead" is the basis for a self constraining mechanism used to moderate naked uninhibited desire.




TOL:

i think, the I wants, i cans and the I SHOULDs especially are contrived off of social expectiations.

Sam:

Social expectations are but one ingredient in the learnings of an individual and in that you are right. Adults are the sum total of all of his or her learnings and experiences ... which include others in the form of community, culture and society ... and in this day and age (with our population base), dealing with other humans is almost unavoidable haha!

Think of the Alladin joke

... "Infinite cosmic power ... iiitttty bitttty living space ..."

The apparant paradox of earned power can be found in its lack of use.

well I believe in God.

I believe in a higher power, but I personally I hope it doesn't have mercy on mankind, we screwed the world up almost as long as our race exists and it's only getting worse ... but thats just my opinion and most people think it's to radical

Originally Posted by Tivles of Light

i dont believe in a god in a Xty, judaism or Islam sense...but one could exist and i think that there is something, fairies, some spirits, some being that cannot be explained by science that is existing in this world, but i do not believe its a god...

i dont know, there are many things i dont know, and since i cannot define myself what god is, i cannot believe in it. i am interested in buddhism and taoism anyway

so call me a loose agnostic if you will

Exactly what i think too

Originally Posted by SamIam

TOL:

"sorry if im intruding on yours and blackhammer's discussion, but i felt like repsonding.

with that scenerio, doesnt that apply to a god? so if what you are saying is God (entity being ominpotent and immortal) cannot do anything? so doesnt that mean that if this diadem applys that god simply creates and does not the ability to preserve or destroy or even intervene? sorry if i misunderstood or if that doesnt apply to gods, but i found that interesting."

Sam:

No problem! Actually a very good point, in which I should clarify ... within this hypothetical context such an entity does indeed have the (infinite or nearly so) capacity
to intervene ... but due to its experience and knowledge may not be inclined to do so.




TOL:

"also, that inverse proportion, seems to be missing something. if you are an adult, dont you have just as many things to choose from, and thus if you get over social expectations then you can choose those choices AND thrive with them

example, a seven year old could chose to drop out of school get on a greyhound bus and choose to live in the middle of alaska.but could a seven year old really thrive doing all those things?"

Sam:

Quite true, the adult actually has progressively MORE choices due to a larger scope of understanding and capacity ... but conversely he or she has more restraint in the form of self imposed rules and external considerations ... so the net effect is that while the adult is undoubtably capable of more, he or she is usually constrained to do a conservative "less".




TOL:

"... but an adult can because of the necessary experiences and ways of surviving and chosing. but would an adult really drop his/her career, sell all belongings to go live in the wilderness? doubt it since social expectations deem its unreasonable, irrational, and unproductive.

Sam:

My point exactly, the adult would consider far more things and aspects when making choices than that of a young child ... this increased "consideration/awareness overhead" is the basis for a self constraining mechanism used to moderate naked uninhibited desire.




TOL:

i think, the I wants, i cans and the I SHOULDs especially are contrived off of social expectiations.

Sam:

Social expectations are but one ingredient in the learnings of an individual and in that you are right. Adults are the sum total of all of his or her learnings and experiences ... which include others in the form of community, culture and society ... and in this day and age (with our population base), dealing with other humans is almost unavoidable haha!

Think of the Alladin joke

... "Infinite cosmic power ... iiitttty bitttty living space ..."

The apparant paradox of earned power can be found in its lack of use.

With the god scenerio, that brings up an interesting question of a God's priorities.
lets say a god does exist, and this god does have the power to construct, obliterate or control a hurricane...well does that mean that NO was just low on God's priority list, or god just simply did not want to intervene to see what would happen, or that god felt like nature should just run its course? im not in disagreement with you, but these are questions that have haunted man for years...if god is truly a good god. (personally a god as to be evil as well because without evil there cannot be good and if god destroyes evil, thus good is destroyed)

Oh, sorry haha. i must have misread your post for the last bit, i think i read it too literally...or not litterally enough.

and...this may be a bit off topic, but because of the fact that a majority of adults consider more consequences than children do when they make a decision, doesn't that mean that a child had more free will because the adult will not allow himself to disregard external and internal consequences?

i believe in god because maybe he just save me from any danger.. and i have a faith with him...