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Thread: does god really exist???

  1. #81
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    Re: does god really exist???

    Quote Originally Posted by Meiwaku
    I'm sorry if I came off sounding like that I didn't mean it. I take it all back if that is what you want.
    .
    no one wants you to take anything back... the issue here is not what people beleive it is a discussion of god's existance. i wasn't mad at anyone, i was a bit annoyed at how the question was phrased, it seemed like an attack on the idividual who put his own opinion into this thread. maybe that's why the person didn't answe you back. and further more i did not accuse you of being an atheist... and as for asking for proof.... what kastelic said was true, and it was what i said before as well.... faith means one does not question god's existance and no proof is required. faith is a leap of hope, some peopel are ready to make that leap, others are not. for you to question that faith and ask such questions as demanding for proof, makes people question themselves because they don't have the answer either. and you say that you were told to question everything by your class, well i haven't seen any good questions that make people think. asking obvious questions and demanding proof is easy, but answering your own questions is difficult. some people made excellent arguments in this thread, what i think you do is read some of these arguments and think about these arguments.
    no one wants you to take a side, but you you should try to make some sense of the thigns said in this thread.... and for the post above by arrianna, and yes you basically said that religious people should not say anything because they are "pushing" religion on people in this thread..... i doubt anyone wants a giant contreversy, people just want to say what they think and why don't you put your opinion in on whether god exists, maybe that would get this thread back on track.... perhaps an answer from you would be an excellent one since you are taking a class, so please share your opinion instead of demanding proof or accusing people of throwing religion in people's faces, or saying that people are sitting on their high horses.....

  2. #82
    Otaku Meiwaku may be famous one day Meiwaku may be famous one day Meiwaku's Avatar
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    Re: does god really exist???

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna
    I would suggest while you were at it asking for suggestions on ways to actually be impartial. Your nutrality needs practice.


    Both statements are extreamly antagonistic especially in a forum dedicated to discussion. They basically say that religious people a) should shut up and b) are stupid to discuss their beliefs. You drew a reasonably expectable reaction for a reasonably inffered belief. If the impression was incorect the fault, in this case, lies not with those reading your post.
    I apologized and recanted what I said in that post of mine, so could we drop that part.

    Quote Originally Posted by kastelic4444
    Doesnt "sitting on the outside looking in", mean you havent made up your mind, hence dont believe in anything yet. Hence you dont belive in god at the moment. To believe in god your not sitting on the fence, and require no proof.
    No, it just means I was following what I was told in class to do in discussions for a little bit.

    If you really want to know my religious beliefs are some Christian but I mostly follow Buddhism. So no, I don't think of myself as an atheist.

    no one wants you to take anything back... the issue here is not what people beleive it is a discussion of god's existance. i did not accuse you of being an atheist... and as for asking for proof.... what kastelic said was true, and it was what i said before as well.... faith means one does not question god's existance and no proof is required. faith is a leap of hope, some peopel are ready to make that leap, others are not. for you to question that faith and ask such questions as demanding for proof, makes people question themselves because they don't have the answer either.
    Well aparently I have to take stuff back since it seems to have upset people I didn't intend on upsetting.

    and you are pushing atheism on people
    You wrote this didn't you? So yes you inadvertantly called me an athiest.

    BTW back to the quote i made the comment on:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by conan lover
    I Know This Guy Just Showed Up And Created Earth And Humans And Nature Its Crazy "

    Me: And is this a fact? Because if you think it is, prove it please.
    We're all argueing on this, it seem spretty silly. :|
    Last edited by Meiwaku; Jul 23, 2005 at 10:38 PM.
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  3. #83
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: does god really exist???

    I can certainly understand wanting to drop it. My point was however that if you wished to discuss the reaction you recieved with your class perhaps you should also take into consideration the reason for it.

    If you wish to try nuetral observation, by all means go for it. I do believe however that you just proved it can be more difficult than most people realize. Practice.

    So does God exist??? *please return to your regularly schedualed etc.*

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  4. #84
    Otaku Meiwaku may be famous one day Meiwaku may be famous one day Meiwaku's Avatar
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    Re: does god really exist???

    Yes, I will practice.

    But what I wrote really shouldn't have gotten me flamed like it did. And I really shouldn't have had to apologize, but I felt I should be the bigger person and at least admit I was wrong (for whatever reason), I only wish everyone could do the same. Then maybe the world wouldn't be such a vicious place for people who think differently or question things. And if people take offence when I stated that what I wrote was hypothetical and did not apply to them in any way then I don't think I should have had to explain myself like I did and feel like I was being attacked. I've been on Anime Online for a VERY long time and I am ashamed to see this stuff happening.

    Ok, if I may. I've heard a few good arguments for and against God's existence. The 2 good arguments that are for God are the "The cosmological argument" and the "unmoved mover" argument.

    The first one states that all physical that exists now can disappear and go in and out of existence "Things live and things die" but they had to come from something. And since there needs to be a reaction for something to come into existence, something can't come of nothing, therefore something had to create it, therefore it was God.

    The second one means the motion of the world couldn't have been made possible if something had not been there to start moving it. There fore there had to be a first mover and that would be god. Kind of like that thing with the metal balls on strings and if you pick one up and hit the next ball they keep clanking back and forth.

    All these were thought up by Aquinas (St. Thomas). Other Philosophers reject his ideas such as Immanuel Kant, who says "reason is too limited to know anything beyond human experience". But Kant does agree with other reasoning on a religious level such as practical reasoning.

    There are also arguments against it. Such as "The Problem From Evil." and another is saying that we claim to be free and have free will, yet if you went by the fact God knows what we do next then we only do what he sees and our actions themselves really aren't free. Well here is a good quote I found for this since I can't word it well
    Another argument claims that the existence of an all-knowing God is incompatible with the fact of free will-that humans do make choices. If God is omniscient, He must know beforehand exactly what a person will do in a given situation. In that case, a person is not in fact free to do the alternative to what God knows he or she will do, and free will must be an illusion. To take this one step further, if one chooses to commit a sin, how can it then be said that one sinned freely?
    Last edited by Meiwaku; Jul 24, 2005 at 08:25 AM.
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    Re: does god really exist???

    and you are pushing atheism on people
    okay let me start by saying that your question of proving god's existance is ridiculous
    Your throwing your athiest beliefs into our faces.

    This has gotten out of hand. People are calling other people names for asking a question? Personal attacks are not a debate, they are considered flaming. Flaming will quickly get you banned, so i'd watch what you say to people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Rules
    Don't be an @$$hole. Flaming, excessive swearing, sexual posts, harassment or generally hostile attitude will result in immediate banning. Just be respectful of others.

  6. #86
    Otaku millionbubbles may be famous one day millionbubbles may be famous one day millionbubbles's Avatar
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    Re: does god really exist???

    A religious thread getting out of control...now there's a shocker.

    And seriously...some people need to back off a little. Stop making Mei have to defend everything she's been saying to the death. You people can feel free to express you're thoughts and beliefs on God so don't jump down her throat because she was saying her thoughts on the subject.

  7. #87
    Otaku FallenAngel may be famous one day FallenAngel may be famous one day FallenAngel's Avatar
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    Re: does god really exist???

    the problem with god being all powerful and all knowing is that supposedly he DOES see everything, of course as meiwaku said that means that we have no free will. however it can also mean that just because god will know what will happen, because he is niether the past, present or future but just everywhere, but it doesn't mean that he made that choice for us. god can see what we will do, however it doesn't necesseraly mean that he made that choice for us. on a more evil note... if god is all forgiving and not vengeful and supposedly created the tree ofk nowledge as a test right? well if eve was give free will and took teh apple by herself, why was satan punished?
    there are all kinds of versions of god. some say we have no free will, others say that we do. in the previous example god's actions don't make sense. but what does make sense that since adam and eve know good and evil... they need pure evil aka satan, since god is good he needs an evil entity in the world, so there will be good and evil. so it's not like devil cult i am advocating here.... it shows that from one story there can be a zillion meanings. so who is good and who should be pity? god or satan? we know as much about satan as we know about god. but god is good and satan is evil ::boo::
    but then you have people like kant who theorized predestination, meanign we have no free will and people from that got "well why bother living if we are already destined to go a certain path of doom?" etc etc etc.... and so the ball keeps on rolling....

  8. #88
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    Re: does god really exist???

    you basically said that religious people should not say anything because they are "pushing" religion on people in this thread
    I think everyone's missed an important point. This is a debate forum. If we cannot logically discuss the existance of God and look beyond our own beliefs, we've kind of missed the point.
    But by you demanding that(proof), it says your dont believe in god. One who believes doesnt ask for proof.
    Stop nitpicking. This is a debate forum. We're supposed to think critically.

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