View Poll Results: What do you like ?

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  • FLASH

    1 14.29%
  • HTML

    6 85.71%
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Thread: Flash Vs Html

  1. #17
    AO Angel ^^ angelan may be famous one day angelan may be famous one day angelan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    Let's face it there are different tools for different jobs. Flash performs jobs that Html, etc. cant do.
    Very true, which is why this isn't a fair comparison...there are things that HTML can do which Flash can't. Think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    Flash is not something you can learn over night and I think this is something else that makes people not like it. Many people enjoy the benefits of using Flash; just because some don't isn't a reason to dismiss it as useful piece of software. Sweeping generalizations are never good to make and quite often are the sign of ignorance.
    Also very true, I learnt flash myself in elementary school....it was fun, action scripts made things a lot easier and allowed you to do a lot more when you had the time to figure everything out. For sure it's a good peice of software, but it's not vital. Just as PS isn't vital to web design. Just as you can develop in .php or .asp or practically any other platform you chose and figure you need.

    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    Flash can be merged with any macromedia product such as dreamwaver (php or asp..ect + javascript + asc .. to create databases with flash's swf) just like http://www.webagent007.com/ and http://chill.coca-cola.com/ creating games, video live chats, no page refreshing and much more ! Since its vector graphics, it should not take much time to load compared to jpgs..ect
    Right, and you're stuck with macromedia.....the fact that you can merge it with php, asp, etc. has nothing to do with dreamwEAVER itself....everything got its roots from HTML.

    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    HTML was born since in 1979 and now it can also be merged with php or asp..ect + javascript for its database just like flash but the only problem is the page refreshing and 404 errors and usualy takes too much time to load large image layouts.
    again, other way around, php/asp/javascript was merged and built on top of HTML. 404 errors have to do with coding, the fact that you get all your bugs out of your actionscript prior to publication is the reason why you don't get "errors" mind you errors have nothing to do with the language or standard, but the programmer and the way the program was made/tested.

    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    Peoples click everywhere and bandwidth is wasted due to page refreshing here and there. Also you can only add text, images, and some javascripts
    Hm...and you think loading flash content is not a waste? When you click on links within a site, you only load content you need. Flash...you tend to load everything, get a 56k connection and you'll see what i mean I really hope you don't think that you can "only add text, images, and some javacripts" ....what do you mean by "some"? -_-" if you spend some time it's amazing what you can do with sites WITHOUT the help of flash. Oh and you seem to think that you can embed sound only within FLASH.....this is entirely incorrect. I suggest you look into it....

    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    I dont know that do you peoples think about html website like this site. But flash is awsome. Im sick of boring html.

    HTML is not a language.
    Hrm.....so are you saying that a flash forum would be a much better fit than a PHP (not really HTML) forum? :S good luck creating and supporting that FLASH forum of yours.

    In my opinion creating an entire site with valuable content solely with FLASH is not worth the time. No matter how much of a pro you are, you won't create a site like this one entirely on FLASH...i'm not gonna say it's impossible, it's just not worth the time and effort.

    oh and while you're throwing out flash sites, this one is the only i ever really really liked....it's an html site designed with flash content...check out the guestbook.
    Orisinal

    Another downside to flash...People tend to like their back and forward buttons, flash pushes people to use the navigation bar.....people like to click and open new windows. You take that away and people find your site a hassle.
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    Web Design Mistakes - Check out 1

    sorry for rambling on....I like flash....but I don't like how you argued your point.
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  2. #18
    Banned ??? may be famous one day ??? may be famous one day
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelan
    Very true, which is why this isn't a fair comparison...there are things that HTML can do which Flash can't. Think about it.
    .
    Like what ? Well me... im a flash developer and 3d video game maker. Flash can do more then adding text and images, Sick of long waiting gif animations ? it can vector ANIMATE ! You can scale graphics and print graphics to whatever size you want without loosing quality and not just that but you can also create live chats and radios witout downloading winamp to listen.

    And talking about bugs.. if you know very well how to program this stuff, you shouldn't get bugs. expecialy when you test it before publishing it to your web.

    Also the fonts wont change and the codes wont change, whatever your using firefox, opera, internet explorer..ect the design will always ALWAYS stay the same.

    Some browser cant support some javascripts under html websites and some usualy mess around the codes and usualy font change when it comes to other language. Chinese ideograms get mass up...

    And i realy hate to wait until the page load when i edit this post.

    Flash forum yes it exist ! check it out at http://animationmentor.com/
    When i edit my posts on a flash forum i dont get the (please wait and click here if it doent load) thing.

    HTML was the past... Flash is the future and the next version of macromedia flash will integrate for the first time. 3D interactives for the web for http://www.erain.com/ !

    Wich will make users play with 3d objects and 3d funs and 3d games for the web for the first time like playing playstation game like on your browser.
    Last edited by ???; Apr 04, 2005 at 08:52 PM.

  3. #19
    M A S T E R Zui Quan may be famous one day Zui Quan may be famous one day Zui Quan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ???

    HTML was the past... Flash is the future and the next version of macromedia flash will integrate for the first time. 3D interactives for the web for http://www.erain.com/ !

    Why should I go through the trouble and expense of making a Flash site when I can do everything I want with HTML/XML and PHP? My coding takes less time and I don't have to bother with stepping Macromedia's toes.

    And i realy hate to wait until the page load when i edit this post.

    Page load times are a function of the file size, hosting server, your internet connection and your computer. File format is irrelevent.

    Flash forum yes it exist ! check it out at http://animationmentor.com/
    When i edit my posts on a flash forum i dont get the (please wait and click here if it doent load) thing.
    That has to be the slowest loading site I've come across in the past week. :Thumbd: Also, there is no discussion forum on that site that a person who is not registered can see.


    Flash is nice and all but it's not the be-all end-all of website design.
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  4. #20
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    I guest HTML as some benefits for the peoples stuck in the low-tech world.
    Seams like peoples prefer a white page with text on it. You want something fast ? Dont add graphics.

  5. #21
    Newbie JEEB may be famous one day JEEB may be famous one day JEEB's Avatar
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    First of all, I'll say the same thing many people have already said. The HyperText Markup Language is a part of the W3C standard and therefore the backbone of the current World Wide Web (in the browsing, that is - I know about FTP, e-mail, BBS systems etc. etc.).

    Flash, on the other hand, is a plugin system that has been developed by Macromedia for 10 years at max and it's main objective, in my opinion, is only to make web content more 'good looking', which is not the major issue in the creation of web media. Just like the soon-to-be-integrated 3D support you mentioned. OK, so you get to make 3D games with it, but does it have that much real potential when looking into sites that are somewhat business-related or just purely technical?

    Flash is good when making entertainment services, but the primary goal even in the design of such systems is to not forget about the fact that it will slow down the site (plugin loading times etc. etc.). And think about those non-broadbanders too, the time that is needed to completely load a web site is one of the important things to notice when designing web content. That Animation Mentor- site might load well on a broadband of 12Mbps, but I don't think that anyone with a 56,600bps modem would actually like to load the Flash version of that site.

    Then you mentioned the need of optimization of code for different browsers. That problem mainly exists because MS's Internet Explorer doesn't render CSS by the standards. And it happens to be the most widely used browser on earth. It is not the fault of HTML or W3C. It is because some software developers just don't care a damn about standards.

    The 'absolute' workingness (HTML is currently the most integrated web browsing method on any platform, not to mention the mobile browsers) of a web page is the thing web authors must deal with nowadays. Not the fact of whether or not the site looks cool. And if one is after the quickest load-up times, one of the many ways to acchieve that is to do the site in a text-like environment, like HTML or XML (or any other text-based file format), as the site will load faster than binary data, because packing can be used. That is, there will be a speedup if there're no problems in your connection. It is true that Flash propably has its own packing system in the Flash format, but I've yet to see any Flash site that loads faster than an average HTML- based web site.

    And talking about bugs.. if you know very well how to program this stuff, you shouldn't get bugs. expecialy when you test it before publishing it to your web.
    This is from the web developers' side only. What Lord Katsuhito meant was the whole Flash system/plugin/whatever that might have security issues when dealing with anything, including confidential material. You cannot possibly know all the possible bugs in the Flash system - I bet even the people at Macromedia don't know all the possible pigholes in their not-so-open-source- 'standard'.

    Sick of long waiting gif animations ?
    Let me say to you that making large .gif animations is not a part of a good HTML design. If you have to use such things, there's already something wrong with the way you've made your site, because usually .gif animations aren't needed, since they are, in 90% of all cases, just unnecessary eye candy.

    The combinations of PHP, database services and pure HTML with CSS can produce the same services as pluginn'ed Flash would, without constant connection (which is impossible to acchieve because of the fact documents tend to be single elements, not needing constant connection with the server), and propably even faster that Flash. I don't see banks, for example, using Flash at all, let alone in the main functions (delivering money from an account to another, for example).

    And when talking about character support, I think poor coding or the lack of character map support are the main reasons that some web sites might not show the characters you would've wanted. And if there's no support for Japanese/Chinese/Cyrillic codepages in your system, then the text won't show up in normal text in Flash either.

    When i edit my posts on a flash forum i dont get the (please wait and click here if it doent load) thing.
    That's just a 'feature' of this forum. Whine to the admin if you don't like it, do not put into the account of the whole language or standard.

    Seams like peoples prefer a white page with text on it. You want something fast ? Dont add graphics.
    That's exactly right! Use CSS instead of making menus full of images! And that is not low-tech, it's just consideration for the older browser models and smaller file size web design.

    This ranting of mine was not produced to completely whack the Flash and all the developers that use Flash on their web media. It's just so that I think it provides only eye candy and makes the size of the site bigger. It's not the thing you should be using as your only option. That's my opinion.

    If, on the other hand, you only need the entertainment features and know that you're turning back possible users, go ahead. "Flash is not useless, but far away from being a web standard." would be my guideline in Flash usage. I don't hate it as much as Javascript (which is useful on very rare occasions), but it still gives me shudders sometimes, when used without thinking any further than the cool way the interface looks.
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  6. #22
    AO Angel ^^ angelan may be famous one day angelan may be famous one day angelan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    Like what ? Well me... im a flash developer and 3d video game maker. Flash can do more then adding text and images, Sick of long waiting gif animations ? it can vector ANIMATE ! You can scale graphics and print graphics to whatever size you want without loosing quality and not just that but you can also create live chats and radios witout downloading winamp to listen.
    Hrms, sounds to me like you've never given HTML (and ASP, Javascript, PHP, etc, etc) a thorough try....that's the impression i'm getting. Believe me, ever since i was in highschool, we've found ways to EMBED sound without having to use winamp. Yes there was sound before winamp. Sure you can vector animate and what not. What if people want to print off your page? what then? you say....okay so give them a printable version....okay, and that's designed in what? HTML?! WOW! You make it sound like there's on waiting in this great world of FLASH. Boy are you wrong.

    Other things that I find better with HTML, it's easier to edit. Now you'll say, "if you're a pro like me, editing won't take even two seconds" hrm....say you're trying to change layout and whatnot....will that take a little more than two seconds? Altho there are some things that are equally easy to edit in HTML vs FLASH, there's quite a bit that's not so easy to edit in FLASH.

    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    And talking about bugs.. if you know very well how to program this stuff, you shouldn't get bugs. expecialy when you test it before publishing it to your web.
    Right, this is what I was pointing out, if you were GOOD at html and tested your stuff, you wouldn't have the 404 errors or whatnot shown to the public. It goes both ways. It's not an argument. And like Katshuito said, there's also security issues to worry about.

    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    Also the fonts wont change and the codes wont change, whatever your using firefox, opera, internet explorer..ect the design will always ALWAYS stay the same.
    This is true, but if you knew what you were doing you can code properly and things will work out fine as well. Also, just because you use fancy fonts donesn't necessarily mean good layout. People like what they're familiar with, throw crazy fonts at them and they're likely not to come back

    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    Some browser cant support some javascripts under html websites and some usualy mess around the codes and usualy font change when it comes to other language. Chinese ideograms get mass up...
    that's .... MESSED up. Hm....okay but the only reason it doesn't get messed up in flash is because everything's embeded in flash. You can have perfectly readable chinese in images, if you're scared of browser conversion. (and you'll say..."isn't that something else to download?" well...yes, but isn't your flash a download too? any data transfered is a download, there's no fighting that).

    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    And i realy hate to wait until the page load when i edit this post.

    Flash forum yes it exist ! check it out at http://animationmentor.com/
    When i edit my posts on a flash forum i dont get the (please wait and click here if it doent load) thing.
    Like Zui Quan, said I don't see no forum....but I DO see fuzzy text.....at first I thought it was my monitor's problem....you freaked me out man. (text within "how to apply" and "contact us")

    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    HTML was the past... Flash is the future and the next version of macromedia flash will integrate for the first time. 3D interactives for the web for http://www.erain.com/ !

    Wich will make users play with 3d objects and 3d funs and 3d games for the web for the first time like playing playstation game like on your browser.
    btw, that link doesn't work -_-"

    It offers many things that animators or designers want....but it's not ready for the whole general public yet. If you're really in webdesign you'd know that the idea is to conform to your audience, NOT make them conform to you. If you're designing a company site, you DO NOT say to your clients, "i don't care, get flash or you don't get to see the site, or forum, or anything else from us"..."oh, you want to print? too bad, i'll send you hard copy later".....that's just not how the world works, you really need to think about that.

    About 3D....i'm not gonna even go there.....i typed some stuff out, but don't want to offend =P Lets just say there's still a long way to go for both the internet and FLASH itself before you can full play playstation like games or hardcore 3D PC games directlly on the internet. We're not ready to handle the load. And btw, FLASH is not the only way to go extreme 3D. It's still too early to say. And....flash simply doesn't yet have the support required for 3D gaming. But prove me wrong....I'd like to see it. I was floored in first year when people hooked up a Quake engine to their Comp Sci project, making 3D captured the flag.

    Like others have pointed out, FLASH has its faults and the need to grow still like everything else on the web, stop making it sound like its the best thing to come to earth and all must bow down to it or something.

    People said, Java was the next best thing (a long time ago) and it still hasn't taken off because of MANY problems....FLASH will be the same (and btw, it's been around for a LONG time too....) if it doesn't shape up and fix a lot of the downsides it has (inability to print, right click gives you next to no functionality, (conformity to widely accepted standards), bandwidth requirements, etc, etc.)

    one more thing....another pet peeve of the web is bad grammar/spelling. *shdders*

    Think about your arguments first, this thread is turning into FLASH bashing because of weak arguments FOR flash. Where in reality, there's a lot people can learn from in FLASH, but there's also a lot that it needs to improve on before it can be widely accepted as a medium for everyday web browsing.
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  7. #23
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    New School VS Old School

    On the updating layout side, yes with flash it would take more time then html with jpg layout.

    Another problem with html is peoples can easying steal your layout just by right clicking.

    Like some peoples like to join site just for the fun & play games other join site just to read text. But when it comes to anime and cartoons... there's nothing wrong adding flash.

    All for fun, fun for all.

  8. #24
    Newbie matthewchan may be famous one day matthewchan may be famous one day matthewchan's Avatar
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    I'm sure it's already been mentioned before in this thread, but it's to solve this problem, it w ould be a good idea to have both an HTML and Flash version of your website.
    I download anime, watch anime,
    download more anime, watch more anime,
    and download anime soundtracks because I have no life.


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