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Thread: God

  1. #17
    Newbie BlueTigerFour may be famous one day BlueTigerFour may be famous one day
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmccormick
    I do believe in a God bluetigerfour, I just think it would be interesting to see if someone actually came up with scientific proof and could back it up.
    I did read your whole post, and i know you beleive in kami. You said you wanted (in a rhetorical sense) for someone to try and disprove the existence of kami. Now your argument seems to be in favor of finding scientific proof of them. Please clarify which is your stance for me; there has been a breakdown in communications.

  2. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallenAngel
    Point is, I never met God so I can't tell you if i like the guy or not. I don't like the starvin children in Ethiopia nor the wars we go through. But tehse problems can be fixed by humans, not God. I don't think God even wants to help us because people will screw it up anyway. So God does a good thing by not showing up.
    It's not that God doesn't want to help us, it's that we can't help ourselves. Let me put it like this.....A person gives asks you to build a building for him. He says, " you can build it whatever way you want to as long as you build it". I hope you see where I'm getting at. God sets us on the earth and gives us choices. We can use them for good or bad to your personal use but it will affect your or anohter's future in some way. If we didn't have free will, we would all be slaves under God's power and command. He could have made the ten commandments, but those were basically guidelines to live life, not demands or orders, and we choose to follow them or not.
    There's one more thing that I want to know. Does God know what decision you're going to make before you make it. If I randomly decided to break my computer right now, was it expected? Is every small decision on a type of schematic? Things can go one way or another but what if there was a third option? Hopefully someone can answer this.
    Also Bluetigerfour, like I said, I'm not in favor of scientific proof. I'm just intrigued to know if it is possible, and if the proof existed, how many people would believe it and how many people will take it as a lie.

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  3. #19
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    I am really surprise why people always say that science is the opposite of God or religion??

    why can't god be the one creator all the physics laws, and elements and etc.

    personally, I really believe in following the commandments, and if everything were to follow mathematical probabilities it would have really been weird

  4. #20
    Newbie Jmccormick may be famous one day Jmccormick may be famous one day Jmccormick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyoro-pyoro
    I am really surprise why people always say that science is the opposite of God or religion??

    why can't god be the one creator all the physics laws, and elements and etc.

    personally, I really believe in following the commandments, and if everything were to follow mathematical probabilities it would have really been weird
    Yes, that's true. God created science and that's the physics and all of that but science is also God's undoing in that the people who are exploiting it to a certain degree are proving things wrong. People used to think that the earth was the center of the universe. Science proved it wonrg. People used to think the earth was the flat. It was also proved wrong by science. And when or if that one day comes where there is no proven God, our religion will be wrong. It's not that science is trying to prove things wrong but that it's trying to put things right. Scientists always question whether a certain thing is actually right. Is the earth round? right. Is earth not the center of the universe? right. Science can really change perspective and belief because they always have one thing religion or belief does not: proof.

    EDIT: I really wish that Hardedge was here for this thread. He would know the right things to say about this.
    Last edited by Jmccormick; Nov 05, 2004 at 08:24 PM.

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  5. #21
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    Jmccormick,

    Hm, indeed. Well like my example of the invisible cat and the spagetti-o cored moon said, i don't think there can be proof or disproof. I don't beleive there is an invisible cat in the chair, but i can only make my own decisions, ne?


    But as to your other question, that is the very basis for Predestination. Predestination is an idea developed by Calvin which theorizes that your kami knows everything, and therefore knows everything you're going to do, and therefore knows if you're going to live in eternal peace or suffer eternal damnation. So basically, the theory is that nothing you can do will change where you're destined for.

    This of course didn't go over happily with the catholic church or the church of england. thus the protestants were born. (calvinists, presbyterians, lutherans... you get the idea).

    Some people take that predestination concept the wrong way. They think it means that they can do whatever they want and they'll go to heaven or hell anyways, so why not just do everything they want? if they were predestined for upstairs, cool beans. If not, shou ga nai, ne?

    Of course, they're missing the part where their kami already KNEW that they were going to screw around and has already predestined them for the kiln.

    hope that helps answer your question, or at least points you in the right direction if you need more info.

  6. #22
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    Smile

    I agree with you, pyoro-pyoro.

    My personal beliefs are that God exists. He created everythingif that is, was, and ever will be. He created us because he loves us. And when we betrayed Him (a.k.a. the fall of man) The only thing that he sent his Son to bring us back to Him.

    But the true beauty of it is that we can decide for ourselves what to believe. We have consciousness and free will, which is something science can't begin to explain. We can invent things and posess a sense of morality.

    If you believe the Bible, it says man kind is the bride of Christ. If God openly did everything for us, we would become lazy and take it all for granted, but if he left us alone, we would have destroyed ourselfves a long time ago. Its a pretty thin line to walk.

    You can either agree with me, or dissagree. These just happen to be my personal beliefs.

  7. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTigerFour
    Jmccormick,

    Hm, indeed. Well like my example of the invisible cat and the spagetti-o cored moon said, i don't think there can be proof or disproof. I don't beleive there is an invisible cat in the chair, but i can only make my own decisions, ne?


    But as to your other question, that is the very basis for Predestination. Predestination is an idea developed by Calvin which theorizes that your kami knows everything, and therefore knows everything you're going to do, and therefore knows if you're going to live in eternal peace or suffer eternal damnation. So basically, the theory is that nothing you can do will change where you're destined for.

    This of course didn't go over happily with the catholic church or the church of england. thus the protestants were born. (calvinists, presbyterians, lutherans... you get the idea).

    Some people take that predestination concept the wrong way. They think it means that they can do whatever they want and they'll go to heaven or hell anyways, so why not just do everything they want? if they were predestined for upstairs, cool beans. If not, shou ga nai, ne?

    Of course, they're missing the part where their kami already KNEW that they were going to screw around and has already predestined them for the kiln.

    hope that helps answer your question, or at least points you in the right direction if you need more info.
    Hm. Interesting points BluetigerFour, but I think, in my opinion there is one little error with that. Kami, or God or whatever, cannot actually know what you're going to do next but he can know what you can do next, there is a difference. A person can always have a change of heart and that's the variable in the matter. Certain events or thoughts can change one's path to destination. Like when you're in a 3 lane road, you can go to the left lane, middle, or right lane but you will still end up in the same place when you get to the end of the street.

    EDIT: One more thing about what Juggernaut said. I'm not trying to disagree but I found another error in your belief. In my belief, God hasn't done anything for us after the supposed life, death, and ressurection of Jesus. He gave us a chance with Jesus and we screwed it up. There has been no "messiahs" since then. I still wonder if Jesus really was the son of God, why did God let him die and be ressurected? What was the ultimate goal gained from that? People haven't really changed since before and after Jesus. There is still bloodshed, wars, and murders throughout the world. Which makes me believe that the scriptures about him and every other prophet or dicsiple were just old hebrew folk tales or myths passed on and finally brought to Christian, Catholic, Protestant etc. religions.
    Last edited by Jmccormick; Nov 05, 2004 at 08:46 PM.

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  8. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmccormick
    in my opinion there is one little error with that. Kami, or God or whatever, cannot actually know what you're going to do next but he can know what you can do next, there is a difference. A person can always have a change of heart and that's the variable in the matter. Certain events or thoughts can change one's path to destination. Like when you're in a 3 lane road, you can go to the left lane, middle, or right lane but you will still end up in the same place when you get to the end of the street.

    Well that's what you beleive. I was just letting you know what predestination is and what religions hold it to be true. I think by now you've caught onto the idea that i don't buy into any of it =)

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