Thread: Gun laws

Originally Posted by Meiwaku

Even with the stats, it is unreasonable to compare the number of deaths in each category.

Highway deaths: More cars than guns, more death by cars than guns. Plus, anyone can get a drivers licence.

Flu deaths: Usually kills elderly, infants and people with weak immune systems, which I am sure total more than the number of people who own a gun.

Gun deaths: Here are some stats I found.

Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:


373 people in Germany
151 people in Canada
57 people in Australia
19 people in Japan
54 people in England and Wales, and
11,789 people in the United States
(*Please note that these 1998 numbers account only for HOMICIDES, and do not include suicides, which comprise and even greater number of gun deaths, or unintentional shootings).

- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

Though it should be noted that the population difference has a factor in the number of deaths, since the USA has almost 200 million more over any country mentioned except Japan (Which has the lowest gun death), so that right away should say something.

As of 2004 the following countries had a population of:

Canada - 32,507,874
USA - 293,027,571
Japan - 127,333,002

And in Japan, it is illegal to carry guns for everyone but law enforcement and Military personnel (maybe with a few exceptions).

I say gun laws would make a big difference.
The kids that shoot people at schools do so usually with perfectly legal guns and ammo.
If you can't get a gun (and kids shouldn't be able to get guns) you're not going to fire one in a crowd anytime soon.

Originally Posted by Hassun

And in Japan, it is illegal to carry guns for everyone but law enforcement and Military personnel (maybe with a few exceptions).

I say gun laws would make a big difference.
The kids that shoot people at schools do so usually with perfectly legal guns and ammo.
If you can't get a gun (and kids shouldn't be able to get guns) you're not going to fire one in a crowd anytime soon.

Japan also has a tradition of shame for your actions and beat cops that know your face and who you are. You cannot compare the two cultures to determine an outcome.

The US has neither and if you compare it to similar cultures you actually find a rise in crimes with handguns upon banning them.

Than what about the simple reason:
People with guns are more likely to use guns to harm other people than people without guns.

"Here are some interesting figures for the year 2002 in the United States:

US Highway Deaths: 42,815
US Flu Deaths: 36,000
US Gun Deaths (homicide, suicide, accidental): 28,163.

So now when are we going to outlaw driving cars, as they seem to cause 150% more deaths than guns do each year in America?! "

Now that's just retarded, there are alot more people driving cars than there are shooting guns.
A gun was developed and is still made to harm while a car isn't.

This can however be a good sign for some more safety on the road.

Originally Posted by chiefblackhammer

Actually people defending themselves with a gun are 2.5 times more likely not to be hurt than people who do not own guns with which to defend themselves.

I don't believe that at all, picture this:
Someone uses one of those illegal guns to rob you, you (with your legal gun) defend yourself by pulling your gun out of your pocket.
Now you have two people with guns aiming at eachother, chances of somebody getting hurt are peaking here.
You're only safer if you pull the trigger first because scaring someone who is also holding a gun with your own gun is just not that easy.

So what will you do?
Pull the trigger and hope the robber is slower than you?
Outcome: Either you're dead, severely wounded or alive depending on who shot first and/or had a better aim.
OR
Give the robber your wallet and be done with it?
Outcome: You lose money but you will not be shot (a robber hs no intention of shooting people when he doesn't have to).

It may sound cliché but it's just the cold hard truth, guns endanger alot more lives than they save.

Originally Posted by Hassun

Than what about the simple reason:
People with guns are more likely to use guns to harm other people than people without guns.

Originally Posted by Hassun

I don't believe that at all, picture this:
Someone uses one of those illegal guns to rob you, you (with your legal gun) defend yourself by pulling your gun out of your pocket.
Now you have two people with guns aiming at eachother, chances of somebody getting hurt are peaking here.
You're only safer if you pull the trigger first because scaring someone who is also holding a gun with your own gun is just not that easy.

So what will you do?
Pull the trigger and hope the robber is slower than you?
Outcome: Either you're dead, severely wounded or alive depending on who shot first and/or had a better aim.
OR
Give the robber your wallet and be done with it?
Outcome: You lose money but you will not be shot (a robber hs no intention of shooting people when he doesn't have to).

It may sound cliché but it's just the cold hard truth, guns endanger alot more lives than they save.

I'm afraid it's neither a clich'e nor the truth. Let me just quote chiefblackhammer in entirety.

Originally Posted by chiefblackhammer

If someone wants you dead they will kill you, Cain killed Able with a rock. David slew Goliath with a sling and a rock. Knives only kill about half as many as guns but severely injury twice as many (idea of being a veggie in a hospital bed the rest of my life doesn't trill me).

If outlawing guns would help then yes do it, but the FACT is it will change nothing. Actually people defending themselves with a gun are 2.5 times more likely not to be hurt than people who do not own guns with which to defend themselves.

In Australia where guns are outlawed, crime has tripled, as there is nothing to deter criminals. Plus criminals still get their hands on guns (Of the guns currently used to commit crimes in the US 89% of them are illegally acquired). As long as people harbor malice, greed, lust and jealousy in their hearts crime and murders will still happen.

Why push something that will do more harm than good.

If a violent man owns a gun is it him or the gun that commit's the crime?

You are entitled to your opinion but the numbers just don't back you up. Even Meiwaku's statistics fall down when compared with crime levels and population density. Personally I'm more concerned with results then what sounds good. Show me results and I'll reconsider but every study I have read says just the opposite.

Originally Posted by Meiwaku

Even with the stats, it is unreasonable to compare the number of deaths in each category.

Highway deaths: More cars than guns, more death by cars than guns. Plus, anyone can get a drivers licence.

Not supported by facts,

There are 107 million U.S. households, each with an average of 1.9 cars, trucks or sport utility vehicles and 1.8 drivers, the Bureau of Transportation Statistics reported. That equals 204 million vehicles and 191 million drivers."
(US 2003)

In 1994, 44 million Americans owned 192 million
firearms, 65 million of which were handguns.
Although there were enough guns to have provided
every U.S. adult with one, only 25 percent of
adults actually owned firearms; 74 percent of gun
owners possessed two or more.

Cars are way more expensive than guns thus less of them and as the stats above show cars are almost 9 years behide guns in shear numbers.

I still believe it is not the weapon but the bearer that is the problem.

Originally Posted by Animewolf267

I think laws should exist but just enough to not allow people with like criminal records or medical history of insanity to get guns.

Not long ago, for school, we had to write and essay on a subject we felt strongly about (or something like that) anyways~ to get to the point, from the research I got some info on obtaining a gun at a firarm show. I`m not sure if this info also pertains to buying a guy from stores.

"It is not easy to obtain a gun, to enter a gun from a gun show - such as SHOT - you must provide a vaild Federal Firearms liscence. If you do not have a vaild license, you will not be permitted to enter. Also, if you cannot provide this license in many places you may not purchase a firearm. To get this license, you must have a background check to show that you, as an individual had never been to a mental instutution, or any other place for mental problems. One of the ways they find out this information is through the National Instant Check System (NICS). Through this system they may look at your mental health records and they also have access to domestic violence and restraining order records, which determins whether you get your license. Many precautions are taken in purchasing a gun, and great care is taken to insure that everyone stays safe."


I myself, know quite a bit about guns, i`ve gone through the hunters safety course once and hope to take it again, there are so many people out there who are responsible gun owners, and many who aren`t. It`s not anyones fault that someone decides to kill another person, whether it be fore self defence, or just shooting for the thrill of it.

Also, to quote an article from nssf.com on a California ammo ban:

" The legislature is expected to consider a proposed law requiring serialized handgun ammunition, coded uniquely by the box. Each container of ammo would have to carry its own code number, also engraved somehow inside the brass of each cartridge and on the bottom of each bullet in that box. Purchases would be registered to the owner, and possession of unregistered ammo would be a crime for anyone but law enforcement, amounting to a practical ban on ammunition by non-police consumers."

So, there are people trying to help inprove the gun problems and all.

I understand what everyone is saying, so instead of trying to make a point on something I only support one side on I just want to ask a question.

Why is there more deaths by guns in the USA than any other 1st world country?