Dec 13, 2004 10:02 AM #17
not really saying i agree with the way his post sounds, tho I do believe that our life is touched by God....but i think Dominion meant that....how can all these atoms and cells hold you, or practically everythign else in this world together in such a harmonious way? Obviously Dominion thinks that there is a God (or higher being) behind all this.
Originally Posted by Hogosha
There wasn't much "scientific theory" to his post....he used a lot of terms which are scientific, and scientific ideas....but there was no scientific theory to it, the theory was established but it was not scientific, you should be able to notice that. All he established is that, he thinks, God has his hands in our creation and in our current state and the current state of the world. Everything doesn't just....crumble because of a higher being. And that is not very scientific ^^
Hope that helps clarify a lilttle. But I agree, his post was a tad confusing....
Dec 13, 2004 10:21 AM #18
I like this; very interesting. That one's attitude concerning life may determine their world after death. i'll have to ponder this one for a while longer.
Originally Posted by Stormraven
Death doesn't scare me either. In all honesty, I don't think my mind has aknowledged that i can die yet. or maybe it doesn't care. Or maybe it knows something i don't, who knows. I've been in a few situations where i could've died (looking back on them) and they didn't phase me. then again, i'm still at the age when i'm allowed to think i'm invincible. Will i stay that way? we'll see.
Dec 13, 2004 10:33 AM #19
Now you've done it...
To live without consequence. In a mind that thinks and is aware of only the past, as such, has thought in a body that it uses to create a world much like an artist uses a brush to paint, or a poet his pencil to shape the letters from their mind. The mind itself paints what the universe is showing it.
In our trained thought, the world has indeed a trained suffering. If you explore the idea of defining beauty then you must eventually agree that what defines it within yourself it different from another persons. Why? Because of the fact that like drops in a cloud we float, sink, and travel in this world by the powers of the forces around us. The flowing of energy. Finally, when we are heavily with the experience of life, we fall…back to the ocean. To the ultimate knowledge, to god, to heaven. How ever you see beauty, but for this example I will use the ocean. The ocean is the creator, without all of us though there isn’t an ocean.
This flow, experienced by our senses often tricks us in believing we choose a path of our own, when in fact it has been pointed out long ago that we are completely dependant on everything around us. I do not exist from myself, nor does this body or computer or anything (except, of course energy/matter, which comes from the ocean).
Perhaps the ultimate experiences lies in the awareness that nothing is your choice but the choice of action in the universe. If you live like a true drop of water, you’ll be blown all over the world, but if you believe you have control, a choice, a cause than you will suffer. Your mind will drift away and join a cloud, with other drops, which although they move individually in that cloud to some extent are of course in the cloud and are in fact very collective. Together, drops create darkness, as the energies carry speed and other clouds pass by, thunder erupts and it pours. It rains very hard. Although perhaps it is a short rain, it does take much of the cloud and return it to the ocean. The battles of nature are found everywhere.
To what means though? Perhaps it isn’t looking for the meaning that we’ve abandoned it is the lack of study into what meaning we have already given ourselves. Why we do what we do. As a cloud we bounce around and cause thunder showers only to return to the ocean. Landing on the surface
Heat makes water evaporate. Heat is the desire. The desire to be a cloud, the desire to be in the sky, to live in a sense away from the mass of energy and knowledge that is the ocean. The ocean’s surface is where we originate although once in this body, or form, there is no shame in taking the time away from the ocean perhaps living in this form should come with the sense that other forms are affected by your existence and your actions go on into infinite time. Much like Buddha said.
In this description, the ocean could be ‘god’ or the ultimate source. How can there be death at all when if we use what we know of the past life goes on. Energies flow, and learn fro that flow forever and ever. Our lives on earth are just a few interpreted dimensions. Would death mean you as a thought do not exist? For that answer you have to understand what is thought and memory. To me they’re just stored reflections of a flow, or a flow that continues in our minds until they fade away, flicker of a candle perhaps. The flame continues but its wiggle or action caused by other forces is only temporary, instant. During that instant, a candle has memory. We’d be naive to believe our minds hold memory for more than an instant. The universe is billions of year old; a few years in an instant.
That is only a short description of my instant thought..:S
Dec 13, 2004 09:37 PM #20
Very poetic but your missing something. Just as we cannot control the ripples around us that move us about others cannot control the ripples we create that affect them. This life may be just a moment, true, but in that moment our actions may cause ripples that will last for eternity. That is why what we do and why we do it is important. You never know where the ripples may flow.
I watch the ripples of my grandparents lives flow around me constantly and they have affected over 60 people that I know of. Such things being exponential I am sure in another 50 years it will be hundreds and so on and so forth.
Dec 14, 2004 08:46 PM #21
I think you missed something. Which could be in part of the barriers of langauge. Everything that is in that moment is a result of everything that was the moment before and before that. How actions are not small ripples of themselves but part of that totality. The waves or ripples are what continue time itself so of course we effect each other--we are each other
Dec 15, 2004 05:56 PM #22
Ahhhh... but then you deny agency. If you believe we are agents unto ourselves to chose our actions then each action we take is another ripple added to the whole rather then simply a continuation. Our actions reflect off of others changing the picture of the whole.
Originally Posted by jao
I have two friends from the exact same backgrounds. Both were raped. One let it destroy her, the other defied the experience and became stronger in spite or even because of it.
If we are only a creation of the ripples before us by your reasoning their actions should have been the same. The only difference I can see between them was themselves. Therefore I believe we can choose for ourselves and that choice will affect not just ourselves but others as well.
Dec 16, 2004 11:11 PM #23
Again you use an example talking as if we're seperate enities.
Scientifically we know the mind is just a clump of elements with electric charges flwoing through it.
The problem with me trying to explain this point is the fact I can't help to use the word me or and muct define each word seperately if that makes sense to you.
Basically, none of us exist because all we are is just energy. Someday (which is only a measurement for our own weird purposes), you will loose that memory, not exist and never even know you did exist in the way you know now. If that scares you it is because you've been influenced to think that the human body is the 'person', is different from all other forms of matter because it has a memory for one reason or another.
The idea of memory, life, in my opinion is like a ripple of water. It is the after affect of the rock splashing. With the bodies senses, we have many splashes, all of which we have NO choice in. Those splashes ripple as our memory and are reflected into the world as our 'actions' if you like. SO really, you're just part of the water, get it? You've got no choice, the the feeling and flow Perhaps you can imagine death as the ripples that have you as a drop and have experienced in the clouds and now you've fallan into the ocean and added to it's endless ripples, creating the ultimate knowledge
Maybe that ending fits better than what I've been trying to explain. Then again, to know my opinion you'd have to experience all the same ripples. heh. .
Last edited by jao; Dec 16, 2004 at 11:15 PM.
Dec 17, 2004 02:19 PM #24
Believe it or not I understand. I just don't agree. If Intelligence was only a form of energy then there would be no difference between us and a rock. After all if I formed the rock so it could hold a current and ran "energy" through it what would keep it from living and being self aware? It's being self aware that makes the difference. To claim our awareness is only a product of what has come before removes our responsibility for our actions and choices.
All things are matter. Energy cannot be destroyed only transformed. Intelligence existed before this world and will exist after. Our memory cannot be destroyed only the form it is encased in may be changed. I was before I was born and I will be after I die, only this mortal body will be discarded.
Ergo we have self awareness, we have agency, we have choice, and we have consequences. Our ripples will continue into the eternities.