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Thread: murder in a mosque

  1. #9
    Ikorose Shinsō Silverskater145 is a hero here Silverskater145 is a hero here Silverskater145 is a hero here Silverskater145 is a hero here Silverskater145 is a hero here Silverskater145 is a hero here Silverskater145 is a hero here Silverskater145 is a hero here Silverskater145 is a hero here Silverskater145 is a hero here Silverskater145 is a hero here Silverskater145's Avatar
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    I agree with what Eriadd said. "This is war. In war, shit happens."

    First of all, I've heard that, the day before (and maybe it has occured many other times), there was a guy who was acting dead. Apparently, when the soldier walked by, he stood up with a bomb, and blew himself and the soldier. It's war, anything goes, and I would have done the same thing if I was that soldier. Of course, the media loves to twist things around.

    If you've seen Saving Private Ryan, they give you a good example of this. When they released a captured soldier (after they were going to kill him), he came back later in the movie to kill two of the soldiers that let him go, even after he said he was for the U.S., and blah blah blah.

    I heard the soldier is going into trial or some shit like that. That's tough. He's been fighting a war, and now he has to go back home to be trialed? That's bullshit. We need to support our troops, and our leaders more, rather than wait for them to mess up.

  2. #10
    Newbie xyzeus may be famous one day xyzeus may be famous one day xyzeus's Avatar
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    much calmer now...

    There were so many emotions and thoughts going through my head and heart when I first posted about this topic...now that I have had time to collect my thoughts and feelings, I 'd like to clarify a few things:

    MY object was not to bring religion into the discussion, even though I clearly mentioned "mosque" in the title; that was an error in my judgement and I would like to take full responsibility if I gave offense or if that was the topic. My original title was "Falloujah Follies", but I thought that would really be offensive...go figure. I did not mean to give the impression that what this post was in reference to.

    I mainly wanted to voice my frustration at how this story does nothing but to confirm that I must remain ambivalent about this situation and not let the media influence my opinion about this situation.
    ambivalence:
    1. The coexistence of opposing attitudes or feelings, such as love and hate, toward a person, object, or idea.
    2. Uncertainty or indecisiveness as to which course to follow.
    I completely support my fellow Americans who are doing their best under some of the worst circumstances. However, I cannot support when they are not. This story reeks of that old adage "one rotten apple does not spoil the whole bunch". One wartime traumatized Marine does not make the whole US population a thoughtless killer nation.

    It is now of my opinion [as in the prisoner mistreatment scandal] that it may be a case of media manipulation. An ambitious reporter and news producer decided to air on national news, a story that is probably commonplace in wartimes, but not seen by the public at large. For either personal or monetory satisfaction, they decide to report on wartime subjects that the general populace are aware of, but do not witness first hand.

    This story, along with the prison scandal, may be attempts to sway an unfavorable opinion from the nation on the current situation in Iraq and I have to admit, they caught me in their net. Let's just hope that I can escape...

  3. #11
    jao
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    Killing justified?

    Isn't that an oxymoron?

    Two things regarding this:

    if you put emotions into soldiers outside the grunting and fuel of fear--you defeat the purpose of a soldier and that is to kill. anyone who says a soldier isn't meant to kill is a fool. That is why they're bred, trained and join.

    If the wounded man was arm would everything change? Because he holds a tool that makes him a murder? No. Does his cause justify is death? No. My point is that no death is justified, expecially in the name of dipomacy.

  4. #12
    Otaku FallenOne may be famous one day FallenOne may be famous one day FallenOne's Avatar
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    You know, its so tiring for people to be surprised at things that happen in war.

    I mean, this idealism has really got to be done away with if we are to progress.

    lets face facts, i dont support war, or attempts to 'justify' death... and i dont believe in half of the causes we decide to go in and fight for.

    But when the country votes and decides to go to war, they are essentially saying "alright guys, we're going to go over there and do horrifying things to other people on a continual basis for the purpose of utterly destroying them". that's that. any other moral dilemmas you have about the issue must be thrown out the window. Because you're asking trained killers - soldiers - to go over and do their job continually on a daily basis for an extended amount of time. I mean you have to be aware of the Horrors they will witness, of the lack of Humanity they will see. They are exposed to things we couldn't fathom...

    To complain about ethical actions... or the logic behind what they do once we let the 'Dog' loose is just idiotic. it shows how simple minded some people are.. and how ignorant the people of the U.S. are in general.

    My two cents anyway - sorry about the rant. later.


    The end is important in all things.

  5. #13
    Newbie Immortal may be famous one day Immortal may be famous one day
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    I don't see the big deal over all of this, it's a war and people are always going to die. It's funny to see how much the attitude of the other insurgents changed once they saw their 'comrade' killed. Suddenly the gung-ho "i'm going to do god knows what to american troops" changes to "please don't hurt me". What happened to the dedication and the hate? Perhaps he should have thought things through a little more.

    As for killing that guy who knows maybe the soldier was blowing off a bit of steam, a bit of payback for all the american troops killed by insurgents. Whatever the reason he's responsible and he'll have to live with that for the rest of his life. Soldiers are trained to kill and they don't have to time to f**k around with injured prisoners that'll probably just shoot them in the back the second they turn around.

    One thing that's interesting to note is that many of these insurgents aren't even Iraqis, they're fanatics who have trickled over the boarders of countries like Iran just so they could have a chance to kill some americans. They deserve everything that's coming to them. I only wish that the root cause of the problem, for example the fanatical reilgious leaders could be dealt with rather than having troops killing all these people that have been more or less incited into killing in 'the name of God'. After all, when was the last time you saw one of those leaders on the absolute front lines or offering to be a suicide bomber?

  6. #14
    AO Angel ^^ angelan may be famous one day angelan may be famous one day angelan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal
    As for killing that guy who knows maybe the soldier was blowing off a bit of steam, a bit of payback for all the american troops killed by insurgents. Whatever the reason he's responsible and he'll have to live with that for the rest of his life. Soldiers are trained to kill and they don't have to time to f**k around with injured prisoners that'll probably just shoot them in the back the second they turn around.
    True that the guy could very well come back to kill them but since we weren't there we may very well never know what really happened. Maybe he was blowing off steam, maybe he was a little jumpy, maybe he just enjoyed killing that guy. Who knows. But you seem to justify what he did as "payback". Hrm....why not go kill innocent people over their as payback for 9/11? would that be justified? No...no it wouldn't be. It's hard to draw the line of whether what he did was right or wrong under the conditions that we probably will never find out about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal
    One thing that's interesting to note is that many of these insurgents aren't even Iraqis, they're fanatics who have trickled over the boarders of countries like Iran just so they could have a chance to kill some americans. They deserve everything that's coming to them. I only wish that the root cause of the problem, for example the fanatical reilgious leaders could be dealt with rather than having troops killing all these people that have been more or less incited into killing in 'the name of God'. After all, when was the last time you saw one of those leaders on the absolute front lines or offering to be a suicide bomber?
    hehe...when was the last time the president of america went to the front lines to fight with his men? when is he not flown around in AF1 or told to go to a safe place when there's a threat of an attack? it's simply not the way you fight a war by sending your leader to be killed.

    And sometimes, the leaders are not killed....not directly...and in the light anyway just becuase it would cause chaos. Just because the leader whom their following is dead doesn't necessarily mean they will lay down their arms and give up. Someone else will take up the lead, or worse, people will take matters into their own hands and it could turn out very very chaotic.

    it....really isn't that easy....is all i want to say.
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  7. #15
    Otaku FallenOne may be famous one day FallenOne may be famous one day FallenOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelan

    it....really isn't that easy....is all i want to say.
    war never is.


    The end is important in all things.

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