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Thread: Natural Disasters - God or Humanity

  1. #17
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    Re: Natural Disasters - God or Humanity

    i think that it is god's decision to punish the world. this is just my opinion, and for all we know, it could be true
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    Re: Natural Disasters - God or Humanity

    Quote Originally Posted by Alegos
    The books were masterfully crafted with "deeply encrypted analogies" so that they are vague, open-ended, and up for interperetation by any Average Joe. If you can believe the Bible you should have no scruples believing the Ogala, Nostradamus, or any other prophetic claims. The "bottomline" is that you shouldn't rely on folklore to explain natural phenomena. Especially when science has empirical evidence for most (if not all) of them (I'd normally link but it's looking pretty nice out and I'd like to get a nice walk in before it gets too chilly).
    I'll second that. I couldn't have said it much better myself.
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    Re: Natural Disasters - God or Humanity

    Well, of course it completely matters if you're religious or not.
    A person with no religion can't exactly beat up on a person with a religion, and a person can't exactly beat up on a person without a religion. Accuse them as much as you want, they won't believe you. ^__^


    My opinion?
    I believe you consider ALL actions as the current cause of this situation.

    (DON'T READ THIS PART IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE TIME... SKIP AHEAD
    Let us enter the concept of COMPLETE CHAIN REACTION. Let's say, a man named Bob picked up a can in the street. That can change things EXTREMELY. First, let's look at it in a focused position. Let's say that Bob's friend notices it and says "Just leave it there"... because of that action, he said that. Now let's zoom out a little more. Let's say that a kid was going to trip on that can. Now let's zoom out a little more. Let's say that when the kid tripped, he broke his neck and could no longer walk from that day on. Let's move to the next slide. A man driving a car saw Bob pick up the can, there are several possibilities in this situation, but let us just name two: One, the man feels compassion in his heart to pick up the next can he sees. Two, the man, due to him directing his attention off the road, runs into something! ... now, let's move back to the previous slide and zoom out more. Let's say that the kid who broke his leg, angered his parents... however, with no real culprit, their anger subsided in them, and sometimes, placed on their child. The child has grown farther from his parents, yet closer. Now, zooming out a little more... the parents' focus have been on their child's injury for quite a while, that focus was needed for their jobs. They are fired. Now let's zoom out more. That family was slipping some money towards a rather "black sheep family" in their entire family. Now with their job gone, the black sheep family turn back to their old black sheep ways and grow farther apart. Now, let us reset the slide and zoom out twice. One day, on a family visit, a cousin of the crippled child comes to meet him for the first time. The child's happiness through the harsh times inspires the girl-cousin... however, the side-effect of pity has also brought an unexpected feeling that never should have occurred: She falls for her own cousin. Now let's zoom out a lot more than we should. Somehow, sights upon sights =simple and dramatic= has brought this "problem" all the way to the other side of the world. Everything having a different effect each time. Now a family in Japan is living successfully because all of this. Zooming out once more. The business is now booming, electric cars now are more twice as powerful, and the oil industry's financial debates have actually been subdued! ... +What? ... it's possible.+ The ozone layer is completely cleared with the current technology, and now the world is now an eco-safe planet..... however, more powerful gangs have arised through this prosperous age of technology. All because of a single Bob and a can)

    Now you might think I'm crazy, but you know that's highly possible. Every little thing we experience through life, was one way or another, a cause of another. Original thought is rare nowadays, as we are affected by anything from a role model to a complete stranger that doesn't even stand out to you. However, our genes and our choices mix more vegetables into the soup. Not only that, but our emotions, thought patterns, percentages, luck ratios, etc etc! Religion and non-religion affects it all! All-in-all, the world is a never-ending domino effect that will only end when there's one domino out of place... but seeing that it's highly impractical that a single domino can dodge a trillion perfectly alligned domino from every conceivable and inconceivable direction, it would have to be... a miracle, now wouldn't it?

    What so much about earthquakes and etc?

    Well... let's say it could have started by a man named Pedro.
    And it ended up with a large party that caused a single shift in the ground to go wrong (that has been battered upon for a thousand years), and a possible volcano started to erupt. Which caused earthquakes from specifically connected cracks attached to that volcano. Causing also, tsunamis.

    Or perhaps, it could have been a girl named Castille.
    And it ended up to being a bird who flew between two mountains, causing an incoming hurricane to actually slow down due to the smoothened air pressure!

    Now, the cause that it was humans to nature is only a mere 2.000- something- % ... however... the chances it was nature to nature is already up to 11.623- something- % ... now, if that nature to nature was caused by a humans to nature (even if it was years of delay), could actually increase it to 9% ... Now, if you add in every single factor of the terrain, chemicals and minerals, previous situations within or near the area, wildlife, air pollution, water pollution, seasons, years, "energy" within the surrounding and inside area, sound patterns, air patterns, climate changes, etc etc etc...

    You'd get a round-a-bout estimation of 98.999- something- % that it was actually caused by SOMETHING ELSE, not by its own accord.

    I'm not saying it's impossible that it did it itself. I'm just saying that there are WAY TOO MANY factors that could have gone on since the start of time that it's hard to think that it chose to do so by itself without influence. (Same thing goes for human choices and etc)

    ... I'm sorry for that being so long. But I hope I made myself clear. And please forgive me if I have offended anyone.

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    Re: Natural Disasters - God or Humanity

    Quote Originally Posted by Felnor
    There's far less war than any time in humanitys history and, for the most part, everyones equal.
    False.

    It has been over a century since we have had a day without a war occuring somewhere in the world. I believe the current count is 20 ongoing wars at any given moment.

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    Wink Re: Natural Disasters - God or Humanity

    Quite honestly, I don't know. But according to the guys at Bibleinfo.com.

    Why is nature going wild and destructive?

    When Adam and Eve sinned it brought a natural consequence to the earth. "And unto Adam He [God] said, "Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree of which I commanded thee, saying, `Thou shalt not eat of it,' cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life (Gen. 3:17). The descendants of Adam became so violent and corrupt that God allowed the world to be destroyed by a global flood (Genesis 6:5,11). The fountains of the deep were broken up (Genesis 7:11). There was great volcanic activity. The layers of the earth's crust were formed and nature was turned out of its God-given course. The stage was set for earthquakes, and killer storms. The natural world is nearing the final consequence of the choice of our first parents, but God is in the business of rescuing, helping, healing. He holds out salvation and everlasting life to all who will receive Him.



  6. #22
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    Re: Natural Disasters - God or Humanity

    Boy, you leave for a few days and you open a can of worms...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassun
    Don't forget what God says after the great flood in the story of Noach.
    In that story he says that he'll never do somethign like that again.

    I guess a partial flood can still happen of course.
    The Lord said he would never flood the entire earth again. That's all. Were told in the bible that other disasters will come in the last days...including floods.

    @Felnor;
    God is the god of nature. Ofcourse he will use natural disasters for his will. While there are many god fearing people on the earth there are also many who do not follow his commandments. The scriptures are very clear about the results of not following commandments. God always gives a warning to those in judgement. He tells them what their sins are. He tells them the punishments that will befall them for those sins. Then he tellls them of the way they may repent and be spared. If they repent they are spared. If not, they are punished. As the scirptures say, the rain falls on the just and unjust. Some who die are rightious while others who live are not. But those who die either die in their sins our they die unto God.

  7. #23
    Newbie Felnor may be famous one day Felnor may be famous one day Felnor's Avatar
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    Re: Natural Disasters - God or Humanity

    Quote Originally Posted by Barronmore
    @Felnor;
    God is the god of nature. Ofcourse he will use natural disasters for his will. While there are many god fearing people on the earth there are also many who do not follow his commandments. The scriptures are very clear about the results of not following commandments. God always gives a warning to those in judgement. He tells them what their sins are. He tells them the punishments that will befall them for those sins. Then he tellls them of the way they may repent and be spared. If they repent they are spared. If not, they are punished. As the scirptures say, the rain falls on the just and unjust. Some who die are rightious while others who live are not. But those who die either die in their sins our they die unto God.
    So has he set a date for all this? Im rather busy this saturday and would hate the apocolypse to get in the way. Maybe I can plan around it.

    Seriously, there's many arguments that can go aganist that but as I do believe in God it would be hypocritical of me to use them so I won't.

    @Arrianna:

    Thats a rather bold statement. I'd like some proof. I also think we may have a different opinion of what constitues a war but I won't get into that until I know more.
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    Re: Natural Disasters - God or Humanity

    Quote Originally Posted by Alegos
    According to Jewish tradition, the end of the world will see:

    1. Ingathering of the scattered Jewish exiles to geographic Israel,
    2. Defeat of all of Israel's enemies,
    3. Building of the third Jewish Temple in Jerusalem and the resumption of the sacrificial offerings and Temple service,
    4. Revival of the Dead (techiat hameitim), or the Resurrection,


    Just because the world has seen the (seeming) fulfillment of the first stage, it doesn't prove on any reasonable standard that the Bible's (in this particular matter of the Old Testament) prophecies are true. The books were masterfully crafted with "deeply encrypted analogies" so that they are vague, open-ended, and up for interperetation by any Average Joe. If you can believe the Bible you should have no scruples believing the Ogala, Nostradamus, or any other prophetic claims. The "bottomline" is that you shouldn't rely on folklore to explain natural phenomena. Especially when science has empirical evidence for most (if not all) of them (I'd normally link but it's looking pretty nice out and I'd like to get a nice walk in before it gets too chilly).
    Nostradamus was thought to have been loony in his time, and his prophecies were always subject to criticism. Did you know that Nostradamus had Christian ties of faith? As did Charles Darwin! Would you be surprised if I told you that Adolf Hitler came from a Jewish family? Watch the discovery channel


    *Sighs* Where to begin? This entry is gonna be huge.
    The ENTIRE Bible is open to enterpretation... Ahh yes, lets see. Before using Old Testement as your back up "Mr. Junior Member" (yes, do you like my excessive usage of quotes?), would you like to turn around this entire thread into a religious discussion? Firstly, you shouldn't have used Old Testement as your backup crutch. For one, it is EXTREMELY archaic, and encoded itself! Old Testement 107 prophecies in it, all of which that Jesus Christ fulfilled in NEW Testment. Let me give you just a couple examples ~ I won't bother with a link, like you said, I'm too lazy and it's "chilly" out XD so I could use a good walk as well. Look up the verses if you have a problem with it:

    (This was predicted 400 years before Jesus' birth. Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey ~ We've all heard the story. The entire city of Jerusalem flocked to worship him confessing him as messiah, yet they crucified him, another prediction, days later)
    Prophecy:Zechariah 9 (OLD TESTEMENT)
    The Coming of Zion's King
    9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion!
    Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem!
    See, your king [b] comes to you,
    righteous and having salvation,
    gentle and riding on a donkey,
    on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

    NT Prophetic Fulfillment: John 12 (NEW TESTEMENT)
    The Triumphal Entry
    12The next day the great crowd that had come for the Feast heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. 13They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,
    "Hosanna![c]"
    "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!"[d]
    "Blessed is the King of Israel!" 14Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,


    (We all remember the story when Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus for silver right? That's predicted in several different OT books.)
    Prophecy:Zechariah 11 (OLD TESTEMENT)
    12 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.
    13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.

    NT Prophetic Fulfillment:Matthew 27 (NEW TESTEMENT)
    3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 4"I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood."
    "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility."
    5So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.


    (Judas betrayed Jesus, he shared the Last Supper which consisted of Bread)
    Prophecy:Pslams 41 (OLD TESTEMENT) 9 Even my close friend, whom I trusted,
    he who shared my bread,
    has lifted up his heel against me.

    NT Prophetic Fulfillment: Luke 22 (NEW TESTEMENT)
    Judas Agrees to Betray Jesus
    Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, 2and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus, for they were afraid of the people. 3Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. 5They were delighted and agreed to give him money. 6He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present.


    (When Jesus was pierced on the cross by the Romans, again predicted 400 years beforehand in the Old Testement. This verse is describing Jesus' close followers' sentiment after his death; Mary, the Apostles)
    Prophecy:Zechariah 12 (OLD TESTEMENT)
    Mourning for the One They Pierced
    10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit [a] of grace and supplication. They will look on [b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son

    NT Prophetic Fulfillment: John 19 (NEW TESTEMENT)
    33But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken,"[b] 37and, as another scripture says, "They will look on the one they have pierced."[c]


    Keep in mind that I got FOUR of those prophecies from only TWO different books of the old testement...The problem with scriptural reading is that no one takes the time to look up factual information on it anymore, therefore atheism has become dominant. Research it, and you will find that Jesus Christ fulls ALL of the prophecies predicted for the messiah that the Jews were seeking in the OT. My point has been proven, I think...Natural disasters were simply a given part of the sin that we acquired. God basically gave Satan power over the Earth, if I understand the bibllical standpoint correctly.

    Ah yes and by the way, Alegos...I'd go to back to seminary ^____~ you seem to have merged Islamic tradition with Judaism and Christian belief; half of the information you speak of I have not even heard of (Or is innaccurate, upon me googling it up). Let me state that I am IN no way claiming to be a scholar myself. I just have been to a Bible study or two in my day ^^;;
    Last edited by tasukuchan; Oct 18, 2005 at 03:21 PM.

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