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Thread: Quote of the Day

  1. #17
    Newbie Blackfire may be famous one day Blackfire may be famous one day Blackfire's Avatar
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    Re: Quote of the Day

    for me, pain is the biggest inspiration for art, music, writing.... life changes from the ordianry and you start to think with a different perspective, but some people are just gifted enough to think out of the box all the time...

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    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: Quote of the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Orange 216
    And surely those several professional artists are smarter than Pythagoras, philosopher/mathematician.
    When it comes to art? Yes.

    If you want to know what makes great art ask the great artists. I have. They all said hard work, and a little talent. All of them.

    In my experience the angst artists are those who are not great but seek to elivate their art by claiming it's an expression of their suffering. "Oh woe is me. Look how great I am."

    I return to my previous point. Based on your logic you can claim that all art is based on happiness as easily as suffering. Without happiness you cannot understand suffering, without suffering you cannot understand happiness. That does not mean that expressions of joy are a reflection of misery any more then misery could be called a reflection of joy. They're not mirrors, they're opposites. The other side of the coin. You need both sides to pay the price of understanding, but to give credit soley to one is to deny the complete existance, the whole.

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  3. #19
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    Re: Quote of the Day

    It's pointless to keep trying to show you what I'm saying so here I go one last time. I'll make it as simple as possible.
    Your claim makes it sound like all humans achieve happiness, which simply is not the case.
    All humans, on the other hand, do fall into suffering at least once in their life if they don't, in fact, suffer their whole life.
    Thus, in order to communicate with ALL humans through expressionary art, you must find a common factor in all of them. They've all got desires, thus they all suffer, thus they all understand suffering.
    It's not that no great art comes from happiness. I agree that some of the best art does. Only for those who experience and understand happiness though.
    A child is born premature, with defects. Thus all its life it desires to be "normal" and from this desire is suffering. This child, quite possibly, does not understand your happy art.
    Art is great if it touches souls. The more souls it touches, the greater. Suffering hits home to any/everybody. Thus, the greatest art expresses suffering.
    Last edited by Agent Orange 216; Sep 21, 2005 at 07:21 PM.
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  4. #20
    Otaku Dreadhawk may be famous one day Dreadhawk may be famous one day Dreadhawk's Avatar
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    Re: Quote of the Day

    They don't HAVE to achieve happiness, but in order to know what it's like to suffer, you have to know what its like NOT to suffer, otherwise how would you compare?

  5. #21
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    Re: Quote of the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadhawk
    They don't HAVE to achieve happiness, but in order to know what it's like to suffer, you have to know what its like NOT to suffer, otherwise how would you compare?
    Note my example right above you.
    I've decided to add another way to put it. You gain desires, which give you a goal. Reaching that goal that the desire created is happiness. As long as you desire and cannot reach that goal, you suffer. You start with suffering, ending the suffering, leads to happiness.
    I'll use a track n field metaphor. You start the race with winning the race in mind. You run (metaphorically suffer) throughout the race until you reach the end. Only at the end can you achieve happiness however. You can not achieve happiness during the race because you desire a win and you don't know if you'll have that win yet.
    Thus, happiness is an ending. Desire is a beginning. The course from one to the other, is suffering.
    To add to that, you must start with a desire or you're wandering aimlessly. You must suffer to reach your goal. However, the only varying factor here, is the end, at which time you may achieve happiness or dissatisfaction.
    Suffering is common ground, happiness is worked for and some don't want to put that work in.
    Last edited by Agent Orange 216; Sep 21, 2005 at 07:33 PM.
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  6. #22
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: Quote of the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Orange 216
    It's pointless to keep trying to show you what I'm saying so I'll make it as simple as possible.
    Your claim makes it sound like all humans achieve happiness, which simply is not the case.
    All humans, on the other hand, do fall into suffering at least once in their life if they don't, in fact, suffer their whole life.
    Oh, I understand. I just don't agree.

    You are saying because everyone experiences suffering at some point then suffering is the catalyst of inspiration. The basis of the human experience.

    I'm saying you can't give the one credit over the other.

    Have you ever heard the expression "how can you miss something you never had?" The point is that you may need suffering to understand happiness but you also need happiness to understand suffering. If you have never been happy what can you possibly compare what you are with? Something said by those who have experiences this, sometimes late in their life. They never knew how bad it was...until it wasn't.

    They are two sides of the coin. The human experience is not suffering, it is not happiness, it is both. Therefore you cannot give all the credit of inspiration to just one. Expressions of happiness are a reflection of happiness and expressions of suffering are an reflection of suffering. Period.


    Oh, and people who cannot achieve happiness until they have reached their goal are destined for misery. Since, by your words, you seem to be one I can understand how you would believe this.

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  7. #23
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    Re: Quote of the Day

    I'm not that way. I just know I went through a lot of suffering to achieve the happiness I have today. I also know that there's not a person in the world who didn't have to suffer in one way shape or form to achieve the happiness they have now if they have it.
    School can be considered suffering. You have that desire to get the best grade possible, thus you suffer throughout the semester to get it. Once you achieve, you find happiness in all the suffering you've gone through. You don't have to have had an "A" ever in your life, to desire it. You're not "missing" the "A", you're desiring it, thus causing suffering. I know that you get it. I recognize your intelligence just by you staying in this debate with me, and I respect that. You can't deny that desire leads to happiness, for without desire you never gain your goal, thus never achieving happiness. What is happiness without suffering? I don't know. What is suffering without happiness? Desire.
    Actually, I do know what happiness without suffering is. It's marijuana. It's vicodin. It's Prozac. It's false, fake, artificial.
    Last edited by Agent Orange 216; Sep 21, 2005 at 07:45 PM.
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  8. #24
    Otaku Dreadhawk may be famous one day Dreadhawk may be famous one day Dreadhawk's Avatar
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    Re: Quote of the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Orange 216
    School can be considered suffering. You have that desire to get the best grade possible, thus you suffer throughout the semester to get it. Once you achieve, you find happiness in all the suffering you've gone through.
    Not exactly, I want the best grades I can get, yet I love all my classes, and was happi when I graduated, did I suffer? not a bit, i was the top of my graphic art clss, that example can't always apply

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