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Thread: toke (Marijuana, Pro or Con)

  1. #41
    As Seen on Internet KenX may be famous one day KenX may be famous one day
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna
    Sorry KenX but you are wrong. THC can cause temporary Schizophrenia and amoung those who are already Schizophrenic it actually causes an increase in dopamine. A quick google search could have taught you that before you opened your mouth and insulted someone. You owe deaths_raver an apology.
    Nah. But it's funny, recently there was an acrtical in NewScience magazine that scientists are trying to prove a relation between pot use and schizophrenia, despite the major increase of pot users over the last 30 years and no increase in schizophrenia diagnosis over the exact same time frame. So there has been zero increase in the diagnosis of schizophrenia, all the while pot use skyrocketed, somewhat debunking claims which link pot to schizophrenia. Many researchers argue that schizophrenic patients were already mentally ill before pot was even a factor and that the use of pot could easily have been their way of actually coping with, or curing, the mental illness in the first place. . What came first, the schizophrenia or the pot use? Ironically, recent research yielded evidence that one of marijuana's chemicals, cannabidiol, exerts a powerful antipsychosis effect, suggesting that cannabis may be a simplistic cure for psychosis rather than a cause. Scientific contradictions rule. UK firm GW plans to further research cannabidiol as a treatment for schizophrenia.


    I recommend checking out the NewScientist article, 'The truth about reefers and schizophrenia'.

    Me? Poke Fun at someone with bi-polar disorder? Lies. I have a cousin with psycosis and is being treated with medical marijuana. For him, marijuana decreases the trouble he has with his symptoms.


    Quote Originally Posted by deaths_raver667
    infact i've never even been to a rave.
    Then why do you have it in your name?
    Last edited by KenX; May 04, 2005 at 01:34 PM.

  2. #42
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Have you ever heard the phrase "can't see the forest for the trees"?
    Sometimes the veiw is much clearer from the outside.


    KenX, the key word is transient, ie. temporary. Of course there won't be an increase in diagnosis if it's not a permenant condition.

    Some links for you:
    THC may Cause Schizophrenia-like Symptoms
    Study: Marijuana Can Produce Schizophrenia-Like Symptoms
    Cannabis and mental illness: is there a link?

    And yes KenX, you.

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  3. #43
    As Seen on Internet KenX may be famous one day KenX may be famous one day
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    Really, and you believe it? For someone who's been around weed and other drugs around for awhile. If you put someone on just a strict marijuana use diety for however long, lets say 10 years. With however many subjects you want, you would not get any results along the lines of schizophrenia. Ever, There is No case that proves it. That website is describing symptoms of marijuana use that are totally the opoosite. "anxiety (decreased to severe), alertness, depression" No one ever would feel this way from marijuana use. This is something you feel when smacked out on heroin. I would know. Schizophrenia is something you conjure up from a hallucinagin. THC isn't that. Period. Go to Anyone, anoyone who smokes marijuana and/or other drugs, and ask them if weed has ever given them delusions of schizophrenia. Some would even give you a good beating if you ever thought of something like that. Really, Would you trust 2 articles that claim it "may" be the cause. They've probably haven't had any hands on experience with the stuff.
    Last edited by KenX; May 04, 2005 at 09:47 PM.

  4. #44
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    There were three articles not two.

    From a UK symposium on Cannabis
    by Zerrin Atakan
    consultant psychiatrist, senior lecturer National Psychosis unit, South London and Maudsley trust.
    Epidemiological studies

    A causal link: Swedish study (1969) of 50,000 Swedish conscripts followed up for 15 years showed an increased risk amongst those who smoked cannabis
    Those who were heavy users at age 18 were 6 times more likely to develop schizophrenia over the next 15 years
    Increased risk of those who have a genetic vulnerability (ie someone else in the family suffers from severe mental illness)

    A recent reanalyzes of the Swedish study showed there is an associated risk of developing schizophrenia consistent with a causal relation. This association is not explained by the use of other drugs or personality traits
    A Dutch study (2002): 7500 people followed for 3 years. Regular consumers were more likely to develop schizophrenia

    1037 individuals followed up from birth in New Zealand 1037 children:
    At age 11: information on psychotic symptoms
    At ages 15, 18: Their first drug use assessed
    At age 28: their psychiatric symptoms assessed
    The study found that people who used cannabis by the age of 15 were four times as likely to show an increase in schizophrenic symptoms at the age of 26
    Cannabis use is not secondary to a preexisting psychosis

    2437 young people (14 - 24 years) with and without predisposition for psychosis were followed up for four years
    After adjustment for other factors:
    The effect of cannabis use was much stronger in those with a predisposition for psychosis than those without (23.8%)
    There is a dose relationship with increasing frequency of cannabis use
    Predisposition to psychosis did not significantly predict cannabis use four years later, thus refuting the self medication hypothesis
    It's interesting how you are willing to quote scientific articles until they dissagree with you. As for the first two articles they are reffering to legitimate on going research at Yale. If you don't like the results take it up with them.
    Yale University researchers have shown that active ingredient in marijuana can cause transient schizophrenia-like symptoms ranging from suspiciousness and delusions to impairments in memory and attention in some patients. The study was an attempt to clarify a long known association between cannabis and psychosis in the hopes of finding another clue about the pathophysiology of schizophrenia.
    Even I know about people who have "bad trips".

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  5. #45
    As Seen on Internet KenX may be famous one day KenX may be famous one day
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    I didn't think someone who hasn't had personal hands-on experience with the drug would believe me anyway, so here:

    "Some earlier (1987) Swedish research [1] using nearly the whole cohort of Swedish males (during national service) showed that there is a correlation between drug use in the teenage years and the later incidence of schizophrenia. As explained above, a correlation does not of itself imply a causal relationship. Instead, the Swedish work allows one to speak of an "association" between cannabis use in the teenage years and later schizophrenia. The study showed that the chance of being schizophrenic at a later date was 6 times as high in the group using cannabis than in the group not using it. The pro-cannabis lobby has criticised this and other studies, saying that the analysis does not ask whether there is a common cause of both the psychosis and the use of cannabis; for example, its use was illegal, thus causing a lot of worry. Another suggestion is that in the early stages of the disease, cannabis is perceived to be a palliative, and [seems to] reduce the symptoms, leading to more use by those with mental problems than by the general population. The new work [2] tends to discount the theory about illegality, since there was not the same association between schizophrenia and other even more illegal drugs. In the Swedish work, it was not shown that both cannabis use and later psychosis are not both caused by another circumstance, namely, a predisposition to schizophrenia. In [2], this predisposition was measured at age 11 using standardised criteria; this vulnerable group had a statistically significant increased association with later schizophrenia if they took cannabis, as compared with vulnerable children who did not take it; the remaining group also showed an increase, but it was less marked. The third result of [2] was that the chance that a cannabis user would develop schizophrenia at 26 was greater for those who started heavy use of cannabis at 15, as compared with a start at 18. The conclusion of the study was that policy should concentrate on trying to delay the start of the cannabis habit in all children, but especially in the vulnerable group. "


    "In the study in New Zealand, analysed in [2], 3 out of 29 patients who were heavy users of cannabis suffered long-term psychotic damage. This is more than one in ten. In [3], other studies are included in an analysis, and adjustments made, and the authors conclude that the association overall for heavy users is 3%, compared with 1% for light users and non-users. Thus 97% of heavy users might expect not to suffer ill effects ten years later. This shows that, if heavy use is a cause, it is not effective on its own. One could form the hypothesis that there is a predisposition [present in 3% of the population] for cannabis to cause schizophrenia, and for those without the predisposition, smoking pot is not going to cause long-term schizophrenia. Since we do not know how to identify this condition, each of us has a risk of being among "the chosen few". If cannabis use is a cause, then by using cannabis (fifty times a year for several teenage years) we increase our risk by a factor of about 3."

    "In [4] it is remarked that all three criteria have been demonstrated in some cases, and that cannabis intoxication is a cause of acute transient psychotic episodes in some people, and that it is a cause of recurrence of pre-existing psychotic symptoms. "

    3% or the actual population of weed smokers getting transient schizophrenia. Theres even cases that tests the theory of from patients who get schizophrenia from marijuana use, most likely developed accute schizophrenia, and marijuana use only helped them cope with it. So marijuana wouldn't actually be a leading cause. Contained in the link disproves the research in the UK about the weed inducing schizophrenia.

    http://www.mth.kcl.ac.uk/~streater/cannabis.html



    This guy Looks into the theory that the patients who got schizophrenia from cannibis use were actually subjected to it early in life.

    http://www.hempcity.net/cannabisshop.../news08112003/


    edit: Upon reading more into the situation it looks like there was some controversy about the UK tests.
    Last edited by KenX; May 05, 2005 at 01:40 AM.

  6. #46
    Newbie Havoktacticalnuke may be famous one day Havoktacticalnuke may be famous one day Havoktacticalnuke's Avatar
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    Kenx I'm just guessing but maybe it's the 'other' rave, like "I love to rave about death...hmmmmmm...
    The word 'impossible' isn't in my dictionary... but I don't really have a dictionary you know? - Eikichi Onizuka.

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  7. #47
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    KenX, of course there is controversy, you just proved that.

    He said, she said. There are two sides to the research, there always is. Each person has a motivation for believeing what they do. You just have to decide which you're going to believe. Your mind appears to be made up to the point you will clutch at any veiwpoint that agrees with you and rant at those who don't. I'm standing outside the situation and can be more impartial. Since those who seem to be claiming it doesn't do anything appear to be present users or those trying to get marijuana leagalized, and those who claim it does affect schitozophrenia are researchers and doctors dealing with patients suffering from the condition, I will believe the second.

    BTW, IMHO you still owe deaths_raver an apology.

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  8. #48
    As Seen on Internet KenX may be famous one day KenX may be famous one day
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    You sure you are acting impartial here? You seem to stick to the conclusion given by the research when i've shown that they could of actually done thigns wrong. You seem to not give anythought of what I've been saying. You stick to the conclusion of something that you've probably only read about. I have not enough fingers or toes to count the number of drugs I've done. I've been around people my whole life who have been around drugs mostly there whole life. It's one thing to be outside the situation. But it's another thing to have actually experienced it.

    We need more of a team deabte on this topic. It's going no were with just one person for pro and con.
    Last edited by KenX; May 05, 2005 at 01:53 PM.

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