Hassun

We aren't placing the blame on someone right now. We just need to look into the future of AO.

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HolderOfTheDarkChalice

oh ok thats cool i thought maybe that was a reason
cant wait to see hw its revamped though

Ishamael

I am also interested to see what happens. Though I think I missunderstood. I was under the impression that you were getting rid of the clans all together, not just rethinking them.

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Hassun

It hasn't been decided yet.

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Barronmore

We'll, I'm not going to say I'm disappointed...in fact, totally ok with it.

But since Dragon Ball has asked us to state what we would like to see, I do have some insights about successful clan systems that other sites have used before. I belonged to a forum board called MKrealms. It was 'the premiere site for all things Mage Knight (a collectible miniatures game that was the hottest game on the market until the creator killed the franchise with bad business decisions). The Realms had an established clan system when I joined the site that had been fully functioning for 2-3 years by then. I was in the clan for 4 years before the site died because the game was canceled.

There were quite a few factors that made the Clan system very successful at the Realms, and when these practices were not in place, the clan system suffered greatly. If clans are reorganized here at AO I would love to see them incorporate all/some of these suggestions.

1. You MUST have a full time administrator over the Clan system. When I mean full time, I really do mean full time. It has to be someone who can devote a great deal of time to the encouragement and maintenance of the entire system. While the Clan leaders admin their respective clans, it's the Clan System admin that sets the contest rules and oversees the smooth operation of everything. It's a big job and requires the full attention of one person to cover. At the realms it was one of the site founders (there were 2+ of them) that oversaw the clan system. It rocked when he had the time to do it...it suffered greatly when he did not have the time to do it. If you can find someone who will have the passion to administer the clan system and will stick with it...then it will be one of the greatest assets AO could have to retain membership. If the admin doesn't want to do it or loses interest, then it's a drain on resources and becomes a resentment among clan members.

2. Clans MUST have a private forum that is theirs. It should not be seen from the outside world and only the site admins (not mods) should even be able to see and post in it. Why? It's a refuge from the rest of the board where clan members can discuss whatever they want...or blow off steam if other site members are annoying them. This privacy is ESSENTIAL for the health of a clan. It was my biggest gripe with the AO clan system.

3. Clans on the realms were general clans. Anyone could join any clan (with approval from the clan of course). There was no 'Fan Fic' Clan or 'games' clan. There was the Draconum High Council or the Order of the Lions. Basically we carved out a nitch of the game or just a fun online "identity" and ran with it. What made the clan system interesting was the variety you would find in every clan. It also made it possible for every clan to compete equally with every other clan on the realms. That has not been possible on AO. As an example, the AO Fans have had a devil of a time finding a graphic artist so they can compete in mandatory competitions. This is a huge problem.

4. Clans on the realms had a minimum and maximum membership count. A clan could not be formed unless it already had 20 committed members at it's formation! This guaranteed a core active group. Some clans were 'unofficial' because they could never meet this number. If a clan fell under the 20 member minimum the clan was instantly disbanded and not allowed to join with any other clan. Disbanded members were free to find other clans if they wished but that was an individual choice. Membership in clans were capped at 50 members. This kept clans intimate and inviting while not overbearing. Very few clans however filled up there rolls completely.

5. Clan members became totally associated with their clan. Each clan member had to wear the clan's avatar (not signature). Traditionally, a persons avatar is their chosen identity, who they are so to speak, and the signature is where they express their individuality. By having the same Avatar, our online identity was that of the clan's identity. Every single member of any clan was proud of their clan and the reputation that clan had. It was in our signatures that we showed our individuality. This, to me, was the biggest problem of our clan system here on AO. I felt no unity with my clan or any real identity with it. Yes, we all had the same signature but our identities were separate. It was not that way at the realms. I was Barronmore of the DHC. I wasn't a member of the clan...the clan was a very serious part of my online identity.

6. All our clan system contests were judged on a point system. You got X amount of points for competing, winning, etc. But we only had mandatory clan challenges about once a year. The rest of the time points were earned by individual clan members for accomplishments that mods/admins felt they needed to recognize. If a clan member helped a newbie with a very friendly and needed post, they could be awarded with points for their clans. If they wrote a great review on a new set of figs for the games, the clans earned points. Our clan competitions consisted more of 'good deeds' and great content then it ever did with playing games against each other (which we also did). As such, we were ALWAYS motivated to compete against other clans by improving the site overall. It was a great system. The front page held a box with the top 3 clan rankings and how many points they had earned. Mind you, you could also lose points for your clan because of your conduct. Any warning points were deducted from your clans total. If you were banned you lost a great deal of points for your clan.

In short, you got 1 point for each clan member and then earned additional points through great posts, good community activity, helpfulness, and official contests. You lost points for warnings, bannings, and poor conduct.

7. Clans were allowed to set their own standards and enforce them. There was only one clan leader and he was in charge of everything from approval of clan members to inner-clan discipline. If there was a problem with a clan member, the admins brought it up to the clan leader (after appropriate actions of course) and left it to the clan leader to resolve it. Between losing reputation among forum members and losing clan points for bad behavior, most issues were solved. If any additional steps needed to be taken by admin/staff members, it was handled completely inside the private clan board.

I'm sure there is actually more. But in short this was really what made the clan system on the Realms rock. I was a member of the realms for a 1½ years before joining the DHC. I don't remember those years at all. But my 3-4 year with the DHC is the highlight of my forum life! They really are family to me and I love every one of them. My identity on the Realms is totally tied to them and the clan...I am no longer Barronmore, a lone wolf. I am Barronmore of the DHC...and I always will be.

That is what I would like to see out of this clan system.

If you have any questions I'll do my best to answer them....

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Gods_Dragon

Wow, this was indeed unexpected... To think I was really becoming attached to the Anime Fanatics Clan. I'm quite sure this is for the greater good, I also want to thank the Admin. for noticing the "lack of commitment" in the clans. I strongly agree with pretty much everything Barronmore stated. There are many strong points that I hope the Admin. takes into consideration. I eagerly look forward to the return of the re-vamped clans! I do have one thing to say to the Admin/Moderators... "Take your time, regardless how many people complain. If you rush things, there could be complications which would cause other issues. I just don't want you to rush on our accord, do what's best for A.O. as a whole. No matter how much time it takes."

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Laharl ex

...you want the clans to be focused and active? Interesting. Since that kinda conflicts itself. Anyway, don't mind me. I'd like this forum to be less active.

Dragon Ball

Good comments Barronmore. I have kept this auto reply in my inbox.

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False Truth

Barronmore, your plan would probably work if we had more members. But for the time being, there aren't enough members here to validate a clan system and also have activity in the main sections. Which is why it works better for specific sites like the Mage Knight you mentioned, or certain videogame sites. As we can see, it doesn't really work too good in an anime forum, especially this one. Basically we're making more and more sections, but our population isn't growing, it's spreading apart, which means less activity all around.

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Barronmore

First, i'm not advicating this is the exact formula we follow...im just stating what has worked very well for one site in the past. Dragon Ball can take or leave any suggestion he wishes.

Now, frankly I don't understand your comment about having clans taking away from the general forums? Why would that happen? The clans are supposed to be what DRIVES general conversation and involvment in the general forums. One of the reasons MKrealms had the point system was to encourage the clans to post quality posts, to help general members out, and to create content that would improve the realms. It worked very well. We were always motivated to share our new paint jobs for figures, write fan fic, create figure reviews of entire sets, gather together strategy article posts to one place for easy reading, etc....all on the general board for the improvement of the realms. We did not have to wait for a 'clan contest' to defend the honor of the clan. It was always avalible. As such, the clans became the focus of the realms to a great degree. It benifited everyone and the 'clan contests' were always happening. There was no need of permission or cordination...you just did your thing and if a mod/admin thought it was a post that improved the quality of the realms your clan was awarded points. If you 'dishonored' your clan through your poor actions/posts, you would lose points for your clan. In all it was very "harry potter" ish.

The reason we had a 'private' forum was so we could have a retreat to talk about (spam up) what WE wanted to talk about. The private forum was just a big chat room for us to hang out in...a common room if you will. We could complain about EVERY OTHER SINGLE member in private and work out all our frustration before getting out on the main board again.

Now, another HUGE diffrence between the Realms and AO is that on the Realms you were not allowed to discuss ANYTHING that did not have to do with Mage Knight outside the "Other Realms" section. There were no political debates or religious discussion threads at all! Think of it as the ultimate version of the "Posting on subject" rule. Pretty much all we could do is discuss Mage Knight....and strangly enough we were able to get policical discussions, religious discussions, and every other type of discussion in our converstations about little plastic toys! (afterall, putting clothes on them is censorship to the artists...and makes you a bad parent if you allow your children to play with them). It was surreal in a way.

My point is, the clans should be DRIVING discussion on the general board. If it can't do this, then what good is it?

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Legend

Then this forum probably isn't your cup of tea.

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