Dragon Ball (Feb 15, 2008)
Animepaper - uses ads which are far more obtrusive than here uses a "donate" option for removal of ads...yeah with a few thousand active members on at any point in the day I can exactly where your right and ads will "kill" the site.
Minitokyo - also uses ads which are far more obtrusive than here, I don't go on there much but I didn't see a method for removing the ads either. I DO know they aren’t hurting for members either.
gaiaonline - biggest forum in the world uses ads no more obtrusive than here...not sure if they have a donate to remove option either
ign - also much bigger than here and they have more ads than any site I have ever seen
and the gamefaqs you mentioned, sorry but they use ads too RIGHT NOW to be exact (I will send you a screen shot if you need it)
My point is cut the BS, sites cost money and AO is doing NOTHING any different than the rest of them...trying to survive and grow…so where are you going to run off to? I frankly can’t stand the attitude that is on AO, this “what can you do for me, give me, give me, give me. I do so much for the site, I post loads and upload images I DESERVE IT…blah blah blah”
Guess what SO DO ALL THE MEMBERS ON THOSE OTHER SITES and they don’t complain about how bad they have it. In fact it costs them more, most of those sites you have to PAY for some of their features either by your activity, images or with money. AO offers those same services for FREE. Check their gallery cost verses ours.
SO why are those sites growing? Why are those site’s members happy? They get the concept of community and because they love their community they give without expecting anything in return (though they do get stuff in return in terms of papers or credits for stuff which I might add we do here). In fact they spend their hard earned money on artbooks, scanning, posting, giving actual feedback (beyond the mods are so mean) helping code, make buttons, banners etc…and they LOVE doing it because it is their site and they take pride in trying to make it the best.
It isn’t the site owner who truly improves this site it is the members and if AO isn’t progressing it is the member’s (myself included) fault. Yes maybe you’re giving your hearts all, even to the point it hurts.
I don’t deny that some people on this site give much more of their time, money (artbooks cost we get that), intelligence etc…we appreciate it and I know you don’t get the proper “thanks” but guess what that is your choice and either you do it because you love this site and want it to be the best or you shouldn’t be doing it. Because whining and complaining is not what this site needs, you all hate people who whine and complain all the time so why become one yourself.
I give my fair share of time, money (hey I upload scans too and those artbooks & DVD’s cost me just the same), etc… and frankly I WANT the ads left for me unless I decide to donate to the site cause I don’t think that just because I am a mod or have given to this site for 4+ years that I deserve anything and I want this site to be as profitable as it can be so we can get upgrades and so DB doesn’t sell the site to a douche bag. I was there for the various owners and I happen to like the one we have.
Just my 2 cents.
Dragon Ball (Feb 15, 2008)
hrm it seems pretty rediculous how much people are fighting this idea... the adds aren't really that disruptive I mean they add more to the site then some of the members do with thier junk in the forums I can basically do the same thing with the adds as I do with those pointless posts. It's not too much to just scroll past them until i get enough money to help out... I don't get what the big deal is... It's not like they're everyother post or everytime you go to switch to a new page. People here on AO are pretty freaking spoiled if they're complaining about the revenue that's keeping it going.
... and join my rebellion against time.
Tsurara: As a member I do not take this as an insult whatsoever. I don't see why... nor I see where is the offence. You have put a lot of time and effort to AO as lot of us have. And I think we don't need any kind of "Oh thank you so muuuuuuuuuuuch you are sooooooooooooo special... blah blah blah" we do not require that. We do what we do because we like it and we like the site to grow. As chief said, the people that make the site grow are its members. As long as we are growing and apporting, the site will do it as well.
Other sites (as chief remarked) require payments to go to the gallery and get wallpapers and stuff... AO has it for free; AO has a lot for free. I think as members we should at least apport with this -add removal donation- (this is a very personal view).
This is a very nice community; and on a community everyone gives... not only receives. ^_^
Nothing less from Pyro ^_^ Great Sig ^_^ THANK YOU!!!!"show me.... THE BEAST!!!" The Beauty and the Beast movie
Ads are not the issue. Splitting content with ads is. (ie. shoving ads between every 3 or 4 posts in a thread).
Gamefaqs absolutely does NOT.
Behold: GameFAQs - Adult Swim Comedy Message Board
They did once and EVERYONE and their MOTHER complained. It was an experiment that ended in flames 8 hours after it began.
No one begrudges a site for having advertisements. But having those advertisements appear in the middle of the site content (and a majority of them for sketchy bs no one wants to click or buy anyway as opposed to ads targetting this actual usergroup with something they may be vaguely interested in), is another.
Pop-ups, split threads, plants, false "articles", phishy links, adware: these are annoying forms of advertisements.
Banners are a reality of life when sites are sold to people who want to make money.
Anyone who thinks IGN, Gamefaqs, MiniTokyo, etc are "supporting their site" through ads is an idiot. Those ads generate REVENUE for the site owners. And generally speaking, the site owners get shit if they try to generate revenue in a way that's annoying to their users.
That... or people leave.
There's NOTHING on this site currently that people can't easily get elsewhere.
Maybe that's the ultimate difference.
There isn't anything that sets AO apart that would make me want to tolerate threads split with advertisements.
I think it's idiotic. But if you guys want to make the site obnoxious for everyone who isn't using firefox: hooray. Don't pretend you love the ads and aren't just turning them off with your adblocker.
If I didn't give a crap about this site I certainly wouldn't be complaining about something that apparently shouldn't even affect me. I'd go start a thread about how to turn the ads off as a mod and that would be the end of it. The point is: this bothers me, as a member. And when this happened on Gamefaqs, everyone got up and left. When advertisements doubled on rotten tomatoes, I got ticked and left (so did a lot of other people). I suppose at this point, after having spent years in fandoms and on boards: I don't appreciate the notion that we're supposed to give our time, effort and money to coorporations and private individuals to profit off of and then being told that that money "supports the site" or that the site somehow "needs the change". Rupert MURDOCH bought Rotten Tomatoes. He's a freaking billionaire! PLEASE don't lecture me about how he needs me to click his banners so that his children don't starve ~_~;
I understand the reality of the internet.
But you need to understand the reality of user-generated content.
When contributors are not appreciated, rewarded, exploited, or even punished (with fees, lack of access, limitations, intrusive/deceptive advertisement, etc): they leave.
And so does your content.
This isn't about ME. It's about EVERY image, review and snippet of information on this site which was donated by a member without any payment in return. THOSE are our donations to the site. To ask us to turn around and pay for it, THEN to make a move to try and annoy us into doing it (on the same day the payment was introduced): that's lame.
Making Web Advertisements Work (Alertbox)
Techdirt: Repeat After Me: Advertising Need Not Be Intrusive
I have now moved the ad group to the header area. Have enabled it for all mods (just for a day only) too just so they can see what it looks like.
If anyone has ideas on generating revenue whilst at the same time improving AO with this revenue, I'm all ears.
Rather than just complaining about things, suggestions and ideas would also be appreciated.
Thank you all for your input.
Over my years surfing the net, I have came across way to many sites that had to go down because the owner can no longer support it. Nekio, this site, and many more. I really don't believe there is any sort of "morale" or "loyalty" in terms of the internet. It is a "What have you done for me lately" world. You can be the most member-friendly site in the world and if you don't update new stuff for people to leech in two days, they are gone.
And, it really shouldn't matter where the ad is right?? Correct me if I am wrong, but no advertiser would want their ads somewhere that can't be seen. That's why billboards are next to highways and not behind some mountain somewhere; that is the whole point of advertising in the first place. Taking gamefaqs for example, sure their ad is off to the side, but in terms of size it's definitely larger than the ads that were on here. On top of that the members are given a choice to simply link AO from their personal networking site something that can help this site and I'm sure you approve of. It shouldn't take members a lot of effort to do that. In a way this is should be a no-brainer for the members...
I guess for me it's about longevity. AO is one of the very few sites that I can leave for 6 months and be sure that when I go back I won't get a webhoster page telling me I can purchase animeonline.net for $9.99. Yeah it is corny, but that's how I feel. It is along the lines of what Chief was saying earlier. I am glad to be at this place to read and post, and at the same time the owner who provide the place should be allow at the very least to break even if not make a profit.
I'm just a little confused, considering that you are already contributing so much to this site that a little more of an ad would tick you off this much. In all honesty just adblock it if you don't like it or if you feel you have a justification for it. The important thing is not to overestimate the value of one's contribution. That statement of course was not directed at you Tsurara, but those who thinks their presence and posting is a form of valuable contribution and THAT is what ticks me off. I guess I'm one of those people who saw the other side of things, where the masses would urge this one disgruntled person to branch off to create his/her own site and when the owner asks for help all he/she gets is a tumble weed rolling by.
Definitely correct me if I'm wrong in any way.
'Cause you give me something / That makes me scared, alright / This could be nothing / But I'm willing to give it a try / Please give me something
'Cause someday I might call you from my heart
Again... I think you're misinterpretting my complaint.
I never said that site owners are not entitled to make revenue from their sites. I said that I don't think anyone appreciates being treated as a stepping stone to revenue by any means. Advertising needs to be carried out with some sensitivity to your users and certainly to your contributors. Because in a site like this (or one like Gamefaqs): the ONLY reason people come here is for the content that those users generate. Be it the images, reviews, the forum posts, whatever... Every active member here represents the very reason this site is valuable to its owner or potential advertisers at all.
While you can solicit advertisements on account of hits: you can not generate hits without content.
Mass exodus of users from Gamefaqs does affect the site a great deal. And the exodus of a few very active users (import/advance faq writers, prolific FAQers, and the site's volunteer-based staff) would cripple the site more than the loss of others.
Just like how fooligar, gallcomp, frozenspring, evol, and Shinku all leaving the site would hurt more than losing 60 members who've never submitted anything at all...
While users need to understand that the internet is a business for many site owners: site owners, in turn, need to realize that their userbase is their customer, in essence (not the advertisers). Even if the site is free to a vistor: it's their butts in the chairs that generate advertising revenue and their content that makes the site viable at all. Cutting them out of the equation to please an advertiser is not wise... nor do I think it's fair.
I have no problem with the ads in their current (and former) placement. I wouldn't even necesarily object to more of them... if their placement was still clean/attractive and non-intrusive. I object with them being placed in such a way so as to hinder the experience that users have come to expect from Animeonline (ie. disrupting content with advertisements designed to interrupt the attention of a user). That experience, I think, the contributors in the very least (if not all members), have already earned by virtue of being here to play audience to advertisements at all.
And I think users have a right to be levelled with about the aims of a site. If the site is not "in trouble", people shouldn't be saying it is. If the site doesn't have a hosting bill... or that hosting bill is already more than paid: we deserve not to hear the "bandwidth isn't free" schpiel. Honesty wins you trust. Trust wins you loyalty.
Tell us the features you'd like to pursue, the server you'd like to buy, or even the personal goal you have for the site's profitablity and maybe how that's going to help us as users or a community. You'd be surprised how much more willing people will be to help out with a goal they feel is communal. Right now, we're not sure what to expect. Maybe we're just paying your rent? (and hey, if you need rent money, say so... I'm sure people will go in on that too)
Sites with user-generated content are very much partnerships. Contributors are giving of their time and efforts for free... they should never feel like they're being punished for it (or exploited in it).