View Poll Results: Who is leading the race?

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  • Obama/Biden

    24 54.55%
  • McCain/Palin

    4 9.09%
  • *puff, puff* Nader/Gonzalez

    0 0%
  • I'm votin' for myself!! Soon I will rule you all!!! (Or, I don't care)

    16 36.36%
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Thread: The AO Presidential Poll

  1. #33
    Legendary Otaku Snake Champion, Zelda Champion, Crazy Koala Champion, Minigolf Champion, Concentrate Champion, Guess 5 Champion, Batting Champ Champion, Beach Ball Control Champion, Bookworm Champion, Wacky Word Wiz Champion, Fight Fight 3 Champion, Spinner's Luck Champion, Traffic Jam Champion, Yeti Pengu Throw Champion Legend is making a name for themselves Legend is making a name for themselves Legend is making a name for themselves Legend's Avatar
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    Re: The AO Presidential Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    Which is why last election so many of them were voted out which then gave the Democrats control of the Senate and House. The Democrats also were in control for a good chunk of Clinton's term and back in the 70's when most of this started. Now tell me, if the Republican's don't have a majority in Congress now and Congress is in charge of economic legislation how did it happen on the Republican's watch?
    From what I understand, and of course you might not agree, we were suppose to have this downturn in the economy years ago in 2003-04, near the end of President Bush's first term. And at that time we stunt this slow down by playing with interests rates among other things. This was what I read from the book "Investing for dummies" in a small section that the writer talks about the relationship between the government and the Treasury, then the leader was Alan Greenspan. He wrote that it was a big factor in President Bush being re-elected. More liberal junk or not, your call. Anyways, this was another misstep that. But believe me, I like to think I am a fair person. I never blamed it all on the Republicans, both sides have contributed enough to this mess. What I said there was a response to Scourge who like my last post aim to put the full weight on the other side.

    Yes, a number of Republicans abetted in it and by all means if you have a Republican Senator or Representative who voted for the legislation that lead to this then vote them out, just do the same for the Democrats who created it too.
    No problem ma'am When our last governor Gray Davis was up to no good we replaced him with Mr. Schwarzenegger, who is part of the Republican party. California?! Republican governor? Say it ain't so JOE!

    How does tax breaks compare? Please explain where the problem is?

    If you drop taxes then tax revenues increase. The reason is that money is a circular rather then a finite resource. It is taxed each time it is used rather then just once when it is created. So the more it moves around the more is it taxed and the more is collected then put back into circulation to start everything over again.
    This seems a lot like the trickle down theory. I am assuming that you mean once taxes drop that companies would have more revenue from less tax.

    I still have two issues with this. 1) I don't believe that the tax revenue companies end up with is going to end up benefiting REAL average joes like all of us here at AO. In the end it's just probably going to be pocketed and a few new jobs created at a optimized number so companies can spend as little as possible while making the most money.

    2) Once again like I said I don't care who the tax breaks go to. At bad times I can tell you have nothing to worry about Senator Obama's increase in capital gains tax. No one is stupid enough to raise taxes during a stagflation. Right now we should not raise nor drop taxes. We are in a big deficit and we are going to drop taxes even more?? NO WAY. When the money is not there to make the budget what happens? MORE BORROWING AND PROGRAMS GET CUT!

    I don't like to get personal, but I know you home school your children right?? Not many parents especially when immigrants are going to mostly land on coastal cities (metropolitan areas and high standard of living), have the "luxury" of staying home to home school their kids. Not to mention these people probaly dont even know how to speak English, more of a reason that we need different programs to help them.

    Giving people an opportunity is what is really American as I have mentioned. Leave to their own devices, no one would be willing to take money out of their own pocket to pay for services they don't use. Heck, even I feel the pain every semester when a part of my tuition is funding a child care program (for students' and faculties' kids). If you ask me out of the blue for the money, I would say no. Taken it out as part of tuition I will grumble, but in the end I am happy it's going to good use. And the fact that I can't get it back even if I complained .

    A non-issue since both candidates voted for it.
    The plan itself was not an issue, but the source of it was. Whether the politicians who voted for it have friends at those corner offices or not it doesn't matter. Because for those that really care about the real Americans and the people they represent, they know that if companies fail average people like you and me are going to suffer the most. Basically the working people were the hostages and the bailout was the ransom. If the plan wasn't approve, the CEO simply closes down the whole thing and reports the loss and can even pay less tax for that.
    --------------------------------------------
    Oh man, I totally had something else to add but I forgot

    'Cause you give me something / That makes me scared, alright / This could be nothing / But I'm willing to give it a try / Please give me something
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  2. #34
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    Re: The AO Presidential Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by anime_being_god View Post
    And btw watch the palin biden debate about the whol $250,000 and samll bussiness.
    I did, and the most honest he was when he said that 95% of small businesses wouldn't be effected. Now I don't know if that is correct but assuming it is lets think about it. 60-80% of jobs are created by small businesses. That would mean that between 3% & 4% of jobs will be impacted by them. We have 152.8 million in the workforce right now from what I could find. Assuming that is correct that would mean between app 4 1/2 million and 6 million people could be impacted by the taxes either as owners or employees that could be laid off. Hardly trivial is it?

    PS. Pulling it out of your hat like that without having been given cause is completely "resorting to". It means you have no legitimate answers and have to stereotype me so you can discard what I say. Insulting is putting it lightly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend View Post
    This seems a lot like the trickle down theory. I am assuming that you mean once taxes drop that companies would have more revenue from less tax.
    Actually it's a trickle up not down. If a company wants to expand the first thing they have to do is invest. Buy products and pay new employees. The money goes first to the middle class and the investors don't see a return for up to 5 years... but no, that isn't what I was talking about.

    Tax revenues, what the government brings in in total taxes for the year, increases when they drop taxes because when people, all people, have more money in their pockets they spend more (especially in the US, we're really bad at saving ) thus increasing the circulation and the more it circulates the more often it is taxed thus causing an increase.

    It's the difference between collecting 36 cents on the dollar 3 times a year and 30 cents on the dollar 4 times a year. Higher tax, lower total revenue (108). Lower tax, higher total revenue (120).

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend View Post
    2) Once again like I said I don't care who the tax breaks go to. At bad times I can tell you have nothing to worry about Senator Obama's increase in capital gains tax. No one is stupid enough to raise taxes during a stagflation.
    ....and yet Obama says he intends to do just that. Are you saying you don't believe him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend View Post
    I don't like to get personal, but I know you home school your children right?? Not many parents especially when immigrants are going to mostly land on coastal cities (metropolitan areas and high standard of living), have the "luxury" of staying home to home school their kids.
    Who said it was a luxury? We sacrifice so I can stay home. We're one of those families that skew the polls as to level of income based on gender and education. I am hardly uneducated but according to them I am because I sacrifice to stay home with my kids. We don't even make enough to be considered middle class but we get by.

    No, I don't mind you getting personal but I don't see what it has to do with the current election either.


    Quote Originally Posted by Legend View Post
    The plan itself was not an issue, but the source of it was. Whether the politicians who voted for it have friends at those corner offices or not it doesn't matter. Because for those that really care about the real Americans and the people they represent, they know that if companies fail average people like you and me are going to suffer the most. Basically the working people were the hostages and the bailout was the ransom. If the plan wasn't approve, the CEO simply closes down the whole thing and reports the loss and can even pay less tax for that.
    The source was a big issue but since both candidates voted for it it seems to be a subject for another conversation. I would love to discuss it elsewhere; here it would just mire down the actual points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Legend View Post
    --------------------------------------------
    Oh man, I totally had something else to add but I forgot
    That's ok, I don't mind waiting until you remember.

    l Stone Hold l Now We're Cooking! l Thanks to Kaos for the awesome sig!

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  4. #35
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    Re: The AO Presidential Poll

    im not going vote this year..but if i would vote i would defintly choose obama..his choices are rasies my attention..i hope his plans help america out..
    i feel though that he will be shot in less than a week if he wins..due to fact that he is black,,

  5. #36
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    Re: The AO Presidential Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    I did, and the most honest he was when he said that 95% of small businesses wouldn't be effected. Now I don't know if that is correct but assuming it is lets think about it. 60-80% of jobs are created by small businesses. That would mean that between 3% & 4% of jobs will be impacted by them. We have 152.8 million in the workforce right now from what I could find. Assuming that is correct that would mean between app 4 1/2 million and 6 million people could be impacted by the taxes either as owners or employees that could be laid off. Hardly trivial is it?

    PS. Pulling it out of your hat like that without having been given cause is completely "resorting to". It means you have no legitimate answers and have to stereotype me so you can discard what I say. Insulting is putting it lightly.

    Actually it's a trickle up not down. If a company wants to expand the first thing they have to do is invest. Buy products and pay new employees. The money goes first to the middle class and the investors don't see a return for up to 5 years... but no, that isn't what I was talking about.

    Tax revenues, what the government brings in in total taxes for the year, increases when they drop taxes because when people, all people, have more money in their pockets they spend more (especially in the US, we're really bad at saving ) thus increasing the circulation and the more it circulates the more often it is taxed thus causing an increase.

    It's the difference between collecting 36 cents on the dollar 3 times a year and 30 cents on the dollar 4 times a year. Higher tax, lower total revenue (108). Lower tax, higher total revenue (120).

    ....and yet Obama says he intends to do just that. Are you saying you don't believe him?

    Who said it was a luxury? We sacrifice so I can stay home. We're one of those families that skew the polls as to level of income based on gender and education. I am hardly uneducated but according to them I am because I sacrifice to stay home with my kids. We don't even make enough to be considered middle class but we get by.

    No, I don't mind you getting personal but I don't see what it has to do with the current election either.


    The source was a big issue but since both candidates voted for it it seems to be a subject for another conversation. I would love to discuss it elsewhere; here it would just mire down the actual points.
    That's ok, I don't mind waiting until you remember.

    I didnt need a cause.

    And assuming/estimateing is never a legitimate anwser either.
    Facts are all that matters, and if the 95% was a lie then why didnt Palin correct him on that????? anwser please!

    1st Sig finished 12-20-09

  6. #37
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    Re: The AO Presidential Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by anime_being_god View Post
    I didnt need a cause.
    ... and now I am done. Yes, you do need cause to accuse someone of racism or all you are doing is showing racism yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by anime_being_god View Post
    And assuming/estimateing is never a legitimate anwser either.
    Facts are all that matters, and if the 95% was a lie then why didnt Palin correct him on that????? anwser please!
    I am not saying the 95% was a lie, I even said lets assume it is correct. When you said to go check the debate, referred to it for answers, that made it perfectly legitimate to use his own answers for actual results, for FACTS. If you don't like the results ask him about it. That is why I said it was being more honest in the debate compared to other times. In most news blurbs and interviews Biden and others have claimed it would have NO effect on small business owners. Not 5%, none. Go do your own fact checks why don't you? Run the numbers and find actual results. Like the FACT that 3 out of every 200 people in the US fall into that tax bracket. Walk down the street and count how many you see then do the math yourself.

    Since you love quoting candidates fact sheets here is another one for you on the debate:
    Joe Biden's 14 Lies

    1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

    2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

    3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

    4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

    5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

    6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

    7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

    8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

    9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

    10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

    11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

    12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

    13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

    14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
    Don't like them? Fact check them yourself to see if they are true or not.



    ... and now I am done talking to you. Maybe someday you will learn not to assume things about someone based on the color of their skin.

    l Stone Hold l Now We're Cooking! l Thanks to Kaos for the awesome sig!

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  8. #38
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    Re: The AO Presidential Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    ... and now I am done. Yes, you do need cause to accuse someone of racism or all you are doing is showing racism yourself.


    I am not saying the 95% was a lie, I even said lets assume it is correct. When you said to go check the debate, referred to it for answers, that made it perfectly legitimate to use his own answers for actual results, for FACTS. If you don't like the results ask him about it. That is why I said it was being more honest in the debate compared to other times. In most news blurbs and interviews Biden and others have claimed it would have NO effect on small business owners. Not 5%, none. Go do your own fact checks why don't you? Run the numbers and find actual results. Like the FACT that 3 out of every 200 people in the US fall into that tax bracket. Walk down the street and count how many you see then do the math yourself.

    Since you love quoting candidates fact sheets here is another one for you on the debate:
    Joe Biden's 14 Lies

    1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

    2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

    3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

    4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

    5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

    6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

    7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

    8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

    9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

    10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

    11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

    12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

    13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

    14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
    Don't like them? Fact check them yourself to see if they are true or not.



    ... and now I am done talking to you. Maybe someday you will learn not to assume things about someone based on the color of their skin.

    I dont care about Biden, he's not going to be president ne wayz, find something on Obama, thats my guy. And does anyone know why a lot of obama's votes are likely to come from younger voters?
    And why do people randomly say that he's a terriost or that if he becomes president is all over??? lol ist so dumb

    And for every lie you find for obama theres double for mccain. Explain Mccains Health Care Plan to me...im sure you like that

    PS>>>I have a white dad and a black mom, like color matters to me...

    1st Sig finished 12-20-09

  9. #39
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    Re: The AO Presidential Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    ....and yet Obama says he intends to do just that. Are you saying you don't believe him?
    *goes into song* if you don't know me by now~~

    Sorry, just had to. My thing is, unlike many I don't follow or support any candidate religiously ever. So yeah I guess we could say that. But I think public opinions and his advisors would tell him not to. And if he someone who's willing to listen I think he'll not do it until times are better.

    Who said it was a luxury? We sacrifice so I can stay home. We're one of those families that skew the polls as to level of income based on gender and education. I am hardly uneducated but according to them I am because I sacrifice to stay home with my kids. We don't even make enough to be considered middle class but we get by.

    No, I don't mind you getting personal but I don't see what it has to do with the current election either.
    See that I put the word luxury in quotation marks. I'm not saying it's like pool in a house kind of luxury. But I think if any parents could and have the chance they would rather home school seeing the current conditions of public schools. I was merely using you as an example and comparing to those that land on our shores. Of course, our school systems probably are still better than what they had in their homeland. But anyone who's been here for many years know how much programs and facilities have been cut due to budget shorts.
    -------------------------------------------
    My "closing" arguments:

    Now I remember what I had to say, and this is directed to you Arrianna. In your honest opinion, do you think that the election will even be this close if not for people who's not willing to vote for an African American and/or those that believe he's a terrorist? People don't like to talk about this because it is really a sensitive issue. And I don't know if the same can be said that African Americans would vote for him just because they are the same race. Two years ago, it was a common concern in the Democratic party that African Americans in the south has been voting Republican.

    Senator McCain has ran against our current president in 2000 I believe. If a younger John McCain did not win over Republicans' hearts then, and look at the job President Bush did, I mean c'mon?

    Regardless of whether you agree or not, Senator Obama has already brought "change". In my opinion, the country's problems go way deeper than that stock ticker. It's the country's apathetic youths, their education level, and work ethics. Obama (with W's help of course) have gotten all these young kids caring and all riled up; whether they vote or not that remains to be seen. If Senator McCain wins, get ready for even more apathy and cynicism (too bad we don't have data on that huh?). For me I just feel like this goes way beyond all those ads and the propose policies. Majority of American voters are in the older age groups, and I have a minor problem with that. Yes, they bring knowledge and wisdom, but I am not so sure if they have the "KNOW" to decide what is good for the future of this country in the ever moving world.

    I am someone who votes by weighing facts 50% and using my heart 50% (heart, not emotions). To me, yeah facts and numbers are good. But honestly they are only as reliable as that "BEST BY" date on my milk carton. A good lesson to not to always look at numbers and percentages is in sports.

    That is all I'm going to say in this thread from here on. Taking too much of my time. Hopefully all those that voted in this poll goes out on Nov. 2nd and walk the walk, regardless of who they side with. May the man with more people that supports him wins.

    You know how people say we only use 10% of our brains?? I think we only use 10% of our hearts.


    'Cause you give me something / That makes me scared, alright / This could be nothing / But I'm willing to give it a try / Please give me something
    'Cause someday I might call you from my heart

  10. #40
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    Re: The AO Presidential Poll

    WOOOOOO!!! Now THIS is a debate!

    I don't even know where to start! Hmm...

    First of all, I don't care who you are or what walk of life you come from. If you can't see that Palin is only there because McCain wants former Hilary voters to swing in his direction. She may THINK she's a smart person, but there's been a pro-wrestler govenor (Ventura, MN), probably had less education than Palin, and he's probably still a better govenor. In my opinion, Sara Palin is very... What's the word I'm looking for? ...Dippy, slow, air-headed; for a lack of better words. In an interview about a month or so ago, I believe I seen the segment on ET or Inside Edition. Either way, she was asked, "What do you like to read? What books and newspapapers do you read?" Palin paused for about ten seconds and then says, "...Oh! Oh! A-All of them! I read them all. Anything that's in front of me, I read it!" That woman probably never even read the back of a box of Lucky Charms, let alone a newspaper. I answer questions in the same manner, when I'm tryin' to be cool, or lie about something I don't really do. Everyone does to a certain degree. Virgins: "Yeah, I have sex all the time! If there's a girl in front of me, I'm doin' her!"

    Now on to McCain. All I gotta say about that man is this:

    He was a P.O.W.! Do you really want your next commander in chief to be someone who was CAPTURED while serving our country?? What kind of example is that for our troops, our citizens, our children? "It's okay for you and several people to go out and just disappear for a very long time, don't worry... Good leaders get caught!!" (I could make a bad Clinton joke right about now, LOL)

    And the man is OLD!!! He'll be president for six months before his heart fails and Palin takes over. He can't remember how many homes he owns... You really think that he'll remember to do half the sh*t he proposes to do? He's openly admitted to only having several hours a day (somewhere between 4 and 7) in which he can make rational decisions, due to some post-traumatic, P.O.W. bull crap...

    Sounds pretty unfit to me...

    One final note: On the economy, it's not the corporations that are doin' it to us, and "Big Oil" may lend a helping hand, but the real problem is Americans as a whole. I work collections and I watch BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in debt fly by on my computer monitor every day. I do business and corporate accounts. Corporations, they DO get a little slack, but only a little. But small business pays out of the owner's pocket. If he's got the loot and simply not paying, that creats debt. Debt that the bank will have to cover if they can't get that money back. Debt the bank probably won't collect on if it goes to a third party. It's people not payin' what they owe that's slowin' us down and closing banks and businesses everywhere here.
    Last edited by atomik_sprout; Oct 28, 2008 at 05:09 PM. Reason: I thought of something else...


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