Thread: Arming teachers?

the school wouldnt allowed it, thats why they hired secuirty to help make things sure they dont get out of hand, and the teacher wouldnt shoot a kid, unless he is paid

Well i will only say that they SHOULD BE ARMED.
not with guns...or maybe just with a good sized tazer!., .
everyone has a right to feel safe, especially teachers.,

Perhaps we should actually read what the blog from the man proposing the legislation before we decide what he's actually proposed.

Tuesday, October 17, 2006
Making our Schools Safer

Here is the press release I sent out today on the fact that trained school personnel in Utah, Oregon, and New Hampshire are allowed to have weapons in school to protect themselves and their students in the event of a school attack. An important note -- in eleven years of experience in Utah there have been no reported problems of trained professionals misusing their guns at school. That includes no incidents involving a student stealing their teacher’s gun or teachers using their firearms to shoot or threaten their students. Also, there has not been one single murder in Utah schools since.

Making our Schools Safer

Nearly 700 Teachers Carry Weapons in Utah Schools

Madison…Following yet another lockdown at a Wisconsin high school yesterday after threats of violence against students, State Representative Frank Lasee (R-Bellevue) said Wisconsin should look to Utah, Oregon and New Hampshire for ideas on how to make our schools more safe.

According to Dave Kopel, lead researcher for the Independence Institute, trained school personnel in Utah have been carrying weapons in school for over 10 years to protect themselves and their students from danger. Kopel said there has not been one single murder in a Utah school since. Rep. Lasee said that his plan to give Wisconsin school employees the option of keeping a gun in a locked box, safe, or other secure location in school should have the same effect.

“Allowing trained teachers and school personnel to have weapons has worked effectively in Utah, Oregon and New Hampshire,” said Lasee. “By following their lead and allowing our teachers to have access to the tools and training they need, we will be further protecting our children from harm.”

After hearing concerns about the prospect of allowing school personnel to carry concealed weapons, Lasee has modified the proposal to allow trained school staff members (who complete a background check and rigorous gun safety course) to keep a gun in school ONLY in a locked, secure, and hidden safe or lockbox.

In Utah, Oregon, and New Hampshire any person over the age of 21 who passes a background check and holds a valid conceal and carry permit is allowed to carry their weapon in school. It is estimated that 3% of school employees in Utah are armed. With nearly 23,000 teachers in Utah, Lasee said that means there are nearly 700 teachers carrying guns into their classroom to protect themselves and their students in the event of a school attack.

In eleven years of experience in Utah there have been no reported problems of trained professionals misusing their guns at school. That includes no incidents involving a student stealing their teacher’s gun or teachers using their firearms to shoot or threaten their students.

“Many critics of this proposal have used these scare tactics to try to defeat this idea,” added Lasee. “It hasn’t caused any problems or difficulties in Utah schools and it has also worked in Oregon and New Hampshire.”

I find it interesting that not only are other countries doing this but three states, including my own, are doing this as well. He is not talking about just handing out guns to teachers who shouldn't have them. We're talking about trained teachers who have passed strict requirements to have these weapon permits. Now, if Utah can have them and not have a single incident with students or teachers misusing the guns in 11 years...then why can't the rest of the union?

I find this thread to be a real joke. I am amazed that the first thought is that a teacher is just gonna fly of the handle and shoot little Jimmy for whatever reason. Do you honestly think that a teacher that would have the temperament to shoot a child would actually WAIT to have a gun before 'disciplining' the child? It is laughable to assume that perfectly good, honest teachers that no one had a problem with are all of a sudden going to turn into psycho killers because they have a concealed gun.

Nothing else has worked. Extra security is obviously not the answer. Spending more money is not the answer. We have more counciling then ever in schools, yet the violence rate in schools is increasing, so that must not be the answer either.

And yet three states have this type of law. And guess what, those three states have yet to have those types of problems. So maybe those states are on to something.

I live in Utah. I haven't been out of the high school system for THAT long. I had no idea that Utah allowed teachers concealed weapons. It never once came up. I would not look differently at a single teacher I had if I had known they had a concealed weapon on them. Personally, I probably would have thought it was really cool.

Teachers have a right and responsibility to protect their students. If they can prove they are competant with a firearm and pass the rigorous requirements for a concealed weapons permit..why shouldn't they have a gun? I teach at a Utah university. I don't have a gun, nor do I have the mental fortitude to use the gun for it's intended purpose. But I feel comforted that there could be someone on this campus who does have a gun and has the mental fortitude to use it if someone starts a massacre here.

Even though the schools haven't had any incidents for 11 years, the percentage of school shootings are extremely low. The shootings happen every once in awhile, but since: #1, it's a school, and #2, young people are either hurt or killed, everyone overreacts thinking that it is a huge problem, and that every school is under threat of being shot up.

Just because a couple students go crazy and kill some people shouldn't be an initiative to give everyone guns. If there is such a huge problem where teachers begin to need guns, then there are bigger problems at play which need to be looked at, and giving teachers guns simply tries to mask that problem.

Here's another little interesting tidbit: In Canada, teachers don't have guns. In 1999, a school shooting took place in Alberta which was the first in twenty years IN CANADA. A much better record than Utah, expecially since teachers aren't armed. The only other example that immediately comes to mind of another shooting in Canada, is the recent shooting in Montreal.

While school shootings do happen in other countries, they are mainly a U.S. problem. Now, doesn't that say something about the society? Obviously, there are bigger problems at play which are creating these events, and giving teachers guns is just masking that problem. People need to step back and ask 'where's this coming from'? Oh...maybe it's because of bullying. But waitaminute, bullying occurs in every single school in every single country, so then shouldn't the percentage of school shootings be proportionate throughout the world?

We already have a thread on this, so I'm not gonna try and change the focus, but maybe, just maybe, the problem lies in the accessability of guns within America. Cuz y'know, if you don't have guns, you can't really shoot up a school. So does giving a teacher a gun really solve the problem? No. It just masks it. Whether or not that teacher has a gun doesn't really matter. If someone is going to shoot up a school, they'll shoot up a school. Chances are, they know (or have planned) that they're not walking out of that school alive, and will most likely be shot by police if they waltz out the front door, so they have nothing more to lose if a teacher has a gun.

I'm just going to assume what the topic is because odds are it's about arming teachers with
A. Guns
B. Mace
C. teaser


Bad idea because if you give the teachers one what is going to stop them from flying off the handle and use said item on us so then kids bring defensive weapons to school

Originally Posted by Chubz

And now, with people saying "give teachers guns," it doesn't solve the problem either. First question you should be asking is "how are the kids getting these guns?" Hm....could it possibly be because they are so easy to purchase, and are easily accessable even through illegal means? No....that couldn't be it....not at all. And you can't complain about it because the NRA will make a big stink and start misquoting the constitution.

Now, I know what the laws are like where you are from but I would like to know how you think the Constitution is being misquoted.

Originally Posted by Chubz

Even though the schools haven't had any incidents for 11 years, the percentage of school shootings are extremely low. The shootings happen every once in awhile, but since: #1, it's a school, and #2, young people are either hurt or killed, everyone overreacts thinking that it is a huge problem, and that every school is under threat of being shot up.
....
While school shootings do happen in other countries, they are mainly a U.S. problem.

I believe you just contradicted yourself. If it is that rare, and it happens in other countries, how is it a US problem?

Originally Posted by Chubz

If someone is going to shoot up a school, they'll shoot up a school. Chances are, they know (or have planned) that they're not walking out of that school alive, and will most likely be shot by police if they waltz out the front door, so they have nothing more to lose if a teacher has a gun.

That part is true, if someone is going to shot up a school they will do it. However, they may not have anything to lose but the students certainly have something to gain if their teacher can shot the perpetrater before they shoot the students instead of having to wait for the police and dealing with a potential hostage/rape situtation.

Just because a couple students go crazy and kill some people shouldn't be an initiative to give everyone guns.

Chubz;

No one is giving teachers guns. The school board is not handing them out like candy. All the state legislature is saying is that if a teacher can qualify for a concealed weapons permit then they should be allowed to carry the gun on campus. That's it. They can already take it to the grocery store, the movies, church, about anywhere they want (assuming private property owners allow it)...just not on school property in that state. This law would allow them to also include schools in the long list of places they may take their concealed weapons. In no way is this law mandating that teachers be required to have guns in the classroom and it should not be portrayed as if it is.

In 1999, a school shooting took place in Alberta which was the first in twenty years IN CANADA. A much better record than Utah, expecially since teachers aren't armed. The only other example that immediately comes to mind of another shooting in Canada, is the recent shooting in Montreal.

You have had two shootings in Canada in 7 years. Your teachers dont' have guns. We have had no shootings in Utah for over 10. Ours do. I don't see how having a clean record for 20 years and then having two shootings in the space of 7 helps your claim.

If someone is going to shoot up a school, they'll shoot up a school. Chances are, they know (or have planned) that they're not walking out of that school alive, and will most likely be shot by police if they waltz out the front door, so they have nothing more to lose if a teacher has a gun.

Not only has Arrianna brought up a good point about possibly killing the attacker before anyone else is hurt/killed, but your forgetting the fact that if someone has already premeditated the act and is willing to break the law to do it, won't they just break the law to get the guns they need to commit the crime? It has nothing to do with gun avalibility. If you restrict guns all you do is take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens and keep them in the hands of criminals who have no respect for the law anyway.

Now I know personally from my own research for my stats class that the violent crime rate does decrease in areas with legal gun ownership over those that don't. Where did I get my data? The FBI database. I compiled the data myself so I know what I'm talking about.