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Thread: Battlefield Outerspace.

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    Battlefield Outerspace.

    For a very long time, internationally it has been agreed upon that outerspace should be used for peaceful purposes only. Weather monitoring, search and rescue, research of planets/stars etc. In 1967 the U.N Outer Space Treaty was created and whent into effect, which bassically states that outerspace will be used for peaceful purposes only. However towards the end of 2000 the U.N. General Assembly had a vote on a resolution called the Prevention of Outer Space Arms Race. It was voted for 163 in favor with three abstentions (witholding your vote), two of those were Israel and the U.S.

    Now, however, the Bush Administration has fully stated that they plan to extend the U.S.'s military power into outerspace and to have weapons in outer space in order to be dominant in the fourth military element (the other three being land, sea and air).

    So is it the right thing to do to put weapons in space when so many other countries have agreed not to?

    I think it's perfectly legitamized for the sole reason that if a peaceful and democratic country like ours doesn't take it then someone with not so peaceful means will, and then we'll be in trouble. Also I don't fully trust anyone who has agreed not to put weapons in space not to do it. Gaining control of the ultimate tactical advantage the world has to offer is just too appealing for people to just say "no". And I think that once we (the US) dominate outerspace peace will finally be established throughout the world, becuase then no one will be willing to fight us or our allies after that. They'll get too tired trying to watch the skies for a 50 megaton American bomb . I also read a Popular Science magazine today that detailed plans on a new military spacecraft that will be able to deliver troops anwyhere in the world within hours, I also saw a concept article of a new global strike rocket that is sent into space and can strike any surface target on the planet within two hours.
    Last edited by Exoparadapsyphobia; Dec 22, 2006 at 12:55 AM.
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    Re: Battlefield Outerspace.

    We won't likely have battles in or strongly tied to space. Every countries weapons and technology would break, glitch, go funky, miss, mal-function, bite the dust, die, fail, etc. before actually doing anything. If they're going to send troops up there, they would be better off sending them into a very large deadly blender.

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    Re: Battlefield Outerspace.

    It will be over centuries before there will such thing as battles or anything associating with space.Why?Technology at the moment is not enough to allow us to connect with space.Not right now anyway.But when it occurs,all hell will be let loose.Humans would have unleashed something greater than the current disasters occuring on Earth.

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    Re: Battlefield Outerspace.

    some of what he said is true though. as early as the cold war a program called "Star Wars" has been researched. star wars was to be a lasser system for shooting warheads out of the sky. while we don't have it in space yet star wars is being put on military aircraft. and satelite launched bombs are probably a very near reality, it's a sad world we live in...

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    Re: Battlefield Outerspace.

    I highly doubt that we'll see any weapons put into space, without starting a nuclear war.

    First off, like what Exo said, they have treaties in place 'trying' to prevent this...But, the U.S does not always keep with treaties. The Ballistic Missile Defence program goes against the "Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty of 1972," and has some countries already questioning the program.

    Despite trying to pin their ballistic missile defence as the next best thing to protect a country, tests for the defence system have been poor at best, with the system not properly working. Even when fired from the ground, they have not been able to shoot down dummy missiles with a decent success rate, so moving the missiles into space orbit does not seem very economically wise at the moment. They'd need the ground system to work first.

    The ballistic missile defence system is almost useless though because the Russians built missiles that were designed NOT to be destroyed by any B.M.D. Russian technology is not precise, but what it lacks in precision it makes up for with power. The Russians created missiles that contained mini-war heads within each missile. These war heads detach, making it hard for any B.M.D to destroy all the targets, which guarantees that at least ONE warhead will hit close to the intended area.

    This was done way back in the Cold War, and the U.S has problems shooting down single missiles even today, so the Ballistic Missile Defence system is pretty much useless.

    #2: Because of terrorism, their is the threat of nuclear explosions being carried out through dirty bombs. These can be transported on land, which also makes the B.M.D system absolutely useless.

    The system is nowhere near having a decent success rate that would warrant it to be moved into space. Also, NASA still has problems sending ships into space without them exploding, or some chunk falling off. The military would have difficulty trying to get the system into space without something going wrong, and when it contains warheads, they would have to be extremely sure NOTHING went wrong.

    Finally, countries aren't stupid. They know the minute someone fires one nuke, everyone is going to start shooting them off. That was why there was a stalemate in the cold war, and why there still is a stalemate today. If the U.S had a system that worked and tried to put it into space, any country that for some reason had plans on nuking the states would take their chance before the system became operational.

    It would be a suicide attack though because like I said, the minute someone fires one nuke, everyone else joins in on the fun. If some country even now, had the actual intent on sending a nuclear missile over to the states, they'd do it. They'd have nothing to wait for, and nothing to lose because they'd expect a swift counter-attack. They wouldn't wait around for some 'perfect moment' to fire the nuke.

    If anything, they'd try and have operatives sneak a dirty bomb or nuclear bomb on the ground, so it couldn't be detected. There is more chance of that happening then there is someone firing a missile.

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    Unhappy Re: Battlefield Outerspace.

    why would you think of outerspace fighting?anyway...pray that this outerspace fighting,battlefield,etc.will never happen (I HOPE...)

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    Re: Battlefield Outerspace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoparadapsyphobia View Post
    Now, however, the Bush Administration has fully stated that they plan to extend the U.S.'s military power into outerspace and to have weapons in outer space in order to be dominant in the fourth military element (the other three being land, sea and air).

    So is it the right thing to do to put weapons in space when so many other countries have agreed not to?
    I think they had better have a means of putting the military up there considering that we should be seeing our long range airlines being replaced by high altitude transports in the next 5 years. How else are they to be defended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubz View Post
    First off, like what Exo said, they have treaties in place 'trying' to prevent this...But, the U.S does not always keep with treaties.
    The US is not bound by treaties unless they are ratified by Congress no matter who signed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exoparadapsyphobia View Post
    However towards the end of 2000 the U.N. General Assembly had a vote on a resolution called the Prevention of Outer Space Arms Race. It was voted for 163 in favor with three abstentions (witholding your vote), two of those were Israel and the U.S.
    As for the Treaty of 1967 it doesn't prevent having a military power in space. Only specific types of military power.
    Article IV

    States Parties to the Treaty undertake not to place in orbit around the Earth any objects carrying nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction, install such weapons on celestial bodies, or station such weapons in outer space in any other manner.

    The Moon and other celestial bodies shall be used by all States Parties to the Treaty exclusively for peaceful purposes. The establishment of military bases, installations and fortifications, the testing of any type of weapons and the conduct of military maneuvers on celestial bodies shall be forbidden. The use of military personnel for scientific research or for any other peaceful purposes shall not be prohibited. The use of any equipment or facility necessary for peaceful exploration of the Moon and other celestial bodies shall also not be prohibited.
    In case anyone actually wants to read what has been said instead of speculate:
    U.S. Remains Committed to Peaceful Uses of Space
    U.S. Policy Aims To Safeguard, Expand Peaceful Use of Space
    Remarks on The President's National Space Policy
    Last edited by Arrianna; Dec 31, 2006 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Adding links.

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    Re: Battlefield Outerspace.

    Yeah, of late they've been trying to stay out of most treaties, but the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty was ratified by the United States congress.

    I'm not really sure of them switching to high altitude transports within the next 5 years though.....it wouldn't seem very economical. The airline industry itself has been having issues money-wise for the last while (though it has calmed down a bit).

    The only way I could possibly see any sort of military in space is if it is done by the United Nations, but even that would be a joke.

    Even if there is a switch to high altitude transports, any offensive moves to destroy one would be easily seen on radars, and they'd know who fired the missile. Within seconds you'd have a war. The only way anyone is going to attack the United States is going to be covertly, smuggling dirty bombs, etc, because firing a missile would invite obliteration. The only real threat would be someone ON the plane, or someone who's put explosives on it. Just get some sort of air marshal on there like they do now.

    The technology just isn't there though, (like I said in my earlier post, even ground fired ABM's don't have a decent enough hit rate to warrant ABM on the ground, so setting it up in space would be a waste of time and lots of money). We have the fundamentals and theories, but we haven't fine-tuned it enough to get into space to that extent (where it is economically sound). Richard Branson's little space glider thingy, cost several million dollars just to go up, and there's no way an they'd be able to send up one transport for a couple million, and expect to make profit. The only people that would be able to make use of that would be the U.S army, and they're on a tight enough budget as is, with money going to Iraq.

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