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Thread: But why Iraq??

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassun View Post
    That's where you're wrong, I don't harbor ill feelings to any country at all.
    The USA can't preach peace at all, they've been in plenty of wars. Don't get me wrong either, I sure am happy the USA came to help fight the Germans twice. But preaching peace? The USA hasn't been good at that in decades.

    The country isn't responsible for cutting off heads. And the reason you see it on TV is because they don't censor their TV broadcasts over there. What does that have to do with it anyway? Are you saying the people in the middle east are barbaric?
    Ok, technically no country in the world could preach peace then but wouldn't you want one of the most powerfull nations in the world who is allied with some of the other powerfull nations to want peace? I'm in no way saying that America does no wrong or anything but damn at least we try.

    The head chopping thing goes back to the laws of war and the geneva convention's rules on prisioners. I was refering to the fact that America has had it's share of tragedies and still through them all follows the laws of war unlike our enemies. I'm not gonna say anything about a specific type of people because it's not right, but the guys that go around cutting people's heads off and slaughtering hundreds of people ARE barbaric.

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post

    The head chopping thing goes back to the laws of war and the geneva convention's rules on prisioners. I was refering to the fact that America has had it's share of tragedies and still through them all follows the laws of war unlike our enemies. I'm not gonna say anything about a specific type of people because it's not right, but the guys that go around cutting people's heads off and slaughtering hundreds of people ARE barbaric.
    The USA violates the Geneva convention laws just like any other country in war, have you forgotten about Guantanamo and other similar camps of torture (because it IS torture, don't try to deny that).
    Second of all, America hasn't had "her share of tragedies", at least not when you compare it to most other countries.

    Again, those guys beheading prisoners aren't the Iraqi/Afghan/whatever government. They are terrorists, terrorism isn't an army to fight against. Nor is it a country. They don't even fall under the Geneva convention. Terrorism itself is illegal in most laws.

    Now comes the funny part: Of course Iraq had no chance of winning any war against the USA. They never had.
    There isn't a country in the world that has the fighting capabilities the USA has. The problem here is, anyone who wants to fight the USA has to use terrorist-like tactics if they want to make an impact. Take Iraq for example, the incredible increase in terrorist attacks since the occupation speaks for itself.

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Okay I seen some legitimate aruments, but lets be honest here... U can try & justify all this bull that's going on here & call it for what it is... Destruction towards mankind... Ppl wanting money, power, beliefs in 1 owns religion by any means... Not understanding the next man standing along side them... The war in the Middle East was built on fight'n ( not say'n that they don't need help, but they probably keep fight'n until the end of times... why cause of their beliefs...) So all I am say'n is back off; understand the whole situation even if u have to take in their beliefs for a while & come at it a different approach... Do something else cause this way isn't working...

    And if we are really set on peace why do we have 1 of the most corrupt gov't that there is... Equality, justice, rights, is all for show... It pretains to certain of ppl why that is cause of money, power & all that other stuff that suppose to make u "untouchable"... Democracy is should be called for what it is de- mock- cracy... We throw that sign up everytime we want to justify what we do, but in all reality we crap on it... Yea' we want to portray the way we say it in the constitution, but that is just to control society in general... Which again I'm not say'n we don't need guidelines & laws, but if that is just for the general public; whose laws & guidelines are the gov't going by cause it sure isn't democracy, equality, justice for all type thing... If u disagree think about, the election, why they keep the rich richer & the poor broke, crack, AIDS... Now u going to tell me we didn't distribute AIDS out... AIDS didn't just pop up out the blue... Think bout' it why now in our days & times..? To control the population & get rid of a general race... Who knows for sure, but if this happened way back in the 1500/1600's our great ancestors would of passed it on & so on where we would have over 65% cases of AIDS right now... That is a fact... But this is my opinion we created it ( no monkey caught the virus or anything like that) there where monkeys way back then too... Didn't get it by being gay (homosexuality started at almost the beggining of time)... All that crap the gov't feed u is about 20% true give or take a lil...

    So how I feel about the war it is only benefiting the 1's in the office & upper branch, but leaves the real ppl (military, civilians) to accomplish their true goals... Which again it might be for peace, but that isn't their real natural reason... If we achieve it that is just a bonus mark for them to gloat bout' & try to justify their so called equality, justice, & democracy... But plz believe that peace isn't number 1 priority... Might be for the ppl who is actuall fight'n in the war, but not the office.

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassun View Post
    The USA violates the Geneva convention laws just like any other country in war, have you forgotten about Guantanamo and other similar camps of torture (because it IS torture, don't try to deny that).
    Second of all, America hasn't had "her share of tragedies", at least not when you compare it to most other countries.

    Again, those guys beheading prisoners aren't the Iraqi/Afghan/whatever government. They are terrorists, terrorism isn't an army to fight against. Nor is it a country. They don't even fall under the Geneva convention. Terrorism itself is illegal in most laws.

    Now comes the funny part: Of course Iraq had no chance of winning any war against the USA. They never had.
    There isn't a country in the world that has the fighting capabilities the USA has. The problem here is, anyone who wants to fight the USA has to use terrorist-like tactics if they want to make an impact. Take Iraq for example, the incredible increase in terrorist attacks since the occupation speaks for itself.
    Ok, so sadaam didn't behead anyone on live TV that we know about. He still killed hundreds of people in acts of genocide and hatred. He was the government right along with his lackies killing folks. He was put on trial and hanged to death, shouldn't be hard to figure it out.

    Maybe America does use camps like you speak of, maybe at those camps they get water,food,to read their own "bible" and pray to their own gods. Do you think anyone in an Iraqi or Afgan lockup got to do that shit before they died? Any of our enemies for that matter. I don't know what goes on at Guantanamo Bay, do you? but I'm still willing to bet that we treat our prisoners far better then our enemies do.

    Why do you have to compare "America's tragedies"? Because we're a young nation and haven't been torn down our pain doesn't count?

    So Iraq figured out that they could never win and started using coward-like tactics, most of our enemies would do that same. Why? Because they don't follow the rules or war. You would never see any allied soldier setting an IED up along a road frequented by civillians just at the chance they could kill 1-2 soldiers and take a vehicle out. THAT is cowardice. Yet through it all America still fighs fair, NATO still fights fair, doesn't that say something about our character?

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    Ok, so saddam didn't behead anyone on live TV that we know about. He still killed hundreds of people in acts of genocide and hatred. He was the government right along with his lackies killing folks. He was put on trial and hanged to death, shouldn't be hard to figure it out.

    Maybe America does use camps like you speak of, maybe at those camps they get water,food,to read their own "bible" and pray to their own gods. Do you think anyone in an Iraqi or Afghan lockup got to do that shit before they died? Any of our enemies for that matter. I don't know what goes on at Guantanamo Bay, do you? but I'm still willing to bet that we treat our prisoners far better then our enemies do.

    Why do you have to compare "America's tragedies"? Because we're a young nation and haven't been torn down our pain doesn't count?

    So Iraq figured out that they could never win and started using coward-like tactics, most of our enemies would do that same. Why? Because they don't follow the rules or war. You would never see any allied soldier setting an IED up along a road frequented by civillians just at the chance they could kill 1-2 soldiers and take a vehicle out. THAT is cowardice. Yet through it all America still fighs fair, NATO still fights fair, doesn't that say something about our character?
    Don't misunderstand me, Saddam Hussein was a dictator like many others. I am not defending his rotting corpse. Never have, never will. That **** ordered the use of Biological/Chemical weapons on civilians.
    He wasn't the first and will surely not be the last dictator though, and as far as dictators go he was a small fish. You can't attack a country just because it's ruled by a dictator. The first Iraq war was a logical thing, Iraq invaded Kuwait. Other countries stepped in and put a stop to that. It was of course a mistake to keep Saddam in power but that's the past and can't be changed.

    People saying that they returned to right their previous wrong are just stupid. They try to tell me you can just attack a country for no valid reason whatsoever (and face it, there wasn't a valid reason other than that Saddam is a dictator) and call it a liberation?
    Shit, I can make up many wild reasons to attack another country as well.

    As for the prisons, I can name a whole lot of countries where the prisons are complete hell as well. The difference is that those countries unlike the USA (just like Iraq btw) don't pretend that their prisons are something else than utter hell. If the USA wants to be the good example for the rest, camps like Guantanamo and in other places of the world (like Romania) aren't the way to do it.

    As for the American tragedies part, I didn't say the USA hasn't had its tragedies but I do say without any doubt that compared to MANY other countries they haven't experienced shit.
    How would you feel if you were a rocket scientist and an uneducated, 14-year-old tries to explain to you how to make rockets? Or me teaching a holocaust survivor about the life in a concentration camp?

    I didn't say 'Iraq' didn't find another way to fight the USA, it's the terrorists. Not all Iraqis are terrorists. Also, the terrorist rarely attack the American soldiers. Terrorists usually have civilian targets.


    A final question I'd like to ask, mainly aimed at Arrianna and Barronmore, is this:

    Have you traveled to many other countries? Have you been to many other countries with a completely different way of life and culture than yours? It's an enriching experience to say the least.

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassun View Post
    Don't misunderstand me, Saddam Hussein was a dictator like many others. I am not defending his rotting corpse. Never have, never will. That **** ordered the use of Biological/Chemical weapons on civilians.
    He wasn't the first and will surely not be the last dictator though, and as far as dictators go he was a small fish. You can't attack a country just because it's ruled by a dictator. The first Iraq war was a logical thing, Iraq invaded Kuwait. Other countries stepped in and put a stop to that. It was of course a mistake to keep Saddam in power but that's the past and can't be changed.

    People saying that they returned to right their previous wrong are just stupid. They try to tell me you can just attack a country for no valid reason whatsoever (and face it, there wasn't a valid reason other than that Saddam is a dictator) and call it a liberation?
    Shit, I can make up many wild reasons to attack another country as well.

    As for the prisons, I can name a whole lot of countries where the prisons are complete hell as well. The difference is that those countries unlike the USA (just like Iraq btw) don't pretend that their prisons are something else than utter hell. If the USA wants to be the good example for the rest, camps like Guantanamo and in other places of the world (like Romania) aren't the way to do it.

    As for the American tragedies part, I didn't say the USA hasn't had its tragedies but I do say without any doubt that compared to MANY other countries they haven't experienced shit.
    How would you feel if you were a rocket scientist and an uneducated, 14-year-old tries to explain to you how to make rockets? Or me teaching a holocaust survivor about the life in a concentration camp?

    I didn't say 'Iraq' didn't find another way to fight the USA, it's the terrorists. Not all Iraqis are terrorists. Also, the terrorist rarely attack the American soldiers. Terrorists usually have civilian targets.


    A final question I'd like to ask, mainly aimed at Arrianna and Barronmore, is this:

    Have you traveled to many other countries? Have you been to many other countries with a completely different way of life and culture than yours? It's an enriching experience to say the least.
    Let's face it, the only people that know for sure why we attacked Iraq are the people in higher power that ordered it. All we know is what the government lets us know plain and simple. We may never know but we did know he was a mass murderer like you said who used chemical weapons on innocent civillians. He held a nation under iron rule of death and everyone knows that his actions warranted a council for his crimes against humanity. He decided (and who wouldn't) to sick his forces on us thus getting this ongoing crappy war going.

    I don't know what happens in any prision anywhere, nor do you unless you work in one. I do know that since the allied nations have strict guidlines and follow the geneva conventions polocies that we have to treat prisioners correctly or go there ourselves, just like with Abu Grab.

    I know that all Iraqi's aren't terrorists, anyone that can use a little common sense can figure that out. You did use Iraq as an example of terroristic activities though. Since I've been over here I've seen my fair share of terrorists and the innocent people they kill. I can tell you this as fact though, the terrorists all over Iraq setting up IED's and launching mortars, are Iraqi's. Another fact, 90% of all targets of these terrorists are soldiers. These guys don't care if 50 civillians get killed by one of their bombs as long as they got the 2 soldiers shopping at the local market and hey just think, some of those loved ones of victims could fall for the propaganda of these same terrorists and be the next one to place a land mine for a soldier to run over or a group of school children to step on.

    Well whether you think the tragedies that have happened to America are minute compared to some other country's doesn't really matter. The fact is we try to keep these things from happening thus people want to come to America to live freely and not worry about their country being demolished.

    I know the question wasn't really directed towards myself but I wanted to comment on it. I have been to numerous countrys since I've been a soldier and I'll agree with you 100% about it being an enriching experience. I have seen this war twice and the "quiet" war with Kosovo back in the day. I have seen these 14 year olds who carry guns and are part of militias and I don't want to ever see the US like that. I didn't want to see any nation like that. We try our best to keep things like that from happening but if the government of these countrys' can't or won't agree to some kind of standards then we kind of have our hands tied.

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    Let's face it, the only people that know for sure why we attacked Iraq are the people in higher power that ordered it. All we know is what the government lets us know plain and simple. We may never know but we did know he was a mass murderer like you said who used chemical weapons on innocent civillians. He held a nation under iron rule of death and everyone knows that his actions warranted a council for his crimes against humanity. He decided (and who wouldn't) to sick his forces on us thus getting this ongoing crappy war going.
    Did you just say Iraq attacked the USA?

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    All I know about how all of this came to be (9-11) was that George Bush had arguments with Hussein and Bin Laden when he was president. After his time was complete in office, their buisness amongst each other was still unfinished. So, W.Bush being president and taking advantage of the fact that he has power, decided to continue what was unfinished between his father and the Iraqi government. It didn't go well.. and BOOM. Terrorism.

    Anyway, I'm glad that there are people who are having conversations and discussions on what society really thinks about America being over there in Iraq. Maybe persuasion will get through that thick head of his.

    With all due and respect, Mr. President, sir.
    Last edited by The White Wolf; Apr 19, 2007 at 12:39 AM.

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