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Thread: But why Iraq??

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    How big do you think the American force really is exactly? We can't just send troops everywhere in the world at once. Stuff like this takes time and major planning. While the president made the choice to put the bulk of the American forces to fight in Iraq/Afganistan we can't just send a small contingency of specialists to Africa or North Korea. You remember Somalia? Anyways your "No I wouldn't" comment leads me to believe once again that you feel as though "If it's not happening to you or your family, you don't care". I never said everything America does is right, and I sure as hell don't think so but even if I was sent here under the wrong pretense I (we) can still try to do our best and make better of the situation.
    You seem to be barking up the wrong tree there bud.

    Not everyone rushes in without thinking the situation through. Some of us really want to know what the hell is going on before we would make a decision. Maybe we don't like the idea of killing or fighting for something we don't believe in. Who the hell needs their family to be killed just to have the conviction to fight? Even if my family were murdered, I still wouldn't run off to take revenge. Yeah it is a serious bitch, but why is that murderers life considered any less valuable than mine?

    I am not a religious person, but I could believe in the whole no matter what sin, repent and acknowledgment could lead to salvation. Not to mention that this man has goals he is willing to do anything for, which isn't very much different than any other person follwing their dreams.

    I am probably on the same thoughts as Hassun when I say that if I don't think something is right, I am sure not going to be involved in it. You stated you are a soldier who goes where he is told, but a few of us have a choice here and will certainly not follow some order blindly.

    I mean if you are being led under false information and lies, how are you making things better/have/or even really know that you are?

    The whole sending people around the world...we pick and choose our battles. Do you honestly think that major planning is the issue when we look at Africa and NK?

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Quote Originally Posted by Tbaism View Post
    You seem to be barking up the wrong tree there bud.

    Not everyone rushes in without thinking the situation through. Some of us really want to know what the hell is going on before we would make a decision. Maybe we don't like the idea of killing or fighting for something we don't believe in. Who the hell needs their family to be killed just to have the conviction to fight? Even if my family were murdered, I still wouldn't run off to take revenge. Yeah it is a serious bitch, but why is that murderers life considered any less valuable than mine?

    I am not a religious person, but I could believe in the whole no matter what sin, repent and acknowledgment could lead to salvation. Not to mention that this man has goals he is willing to do anything for, which isn't very much different than any other person follwing their dreams.

    I am probably on the same thoughts as Hassun when I say that if I don't think something is right, I am sure not going to be involved in it. You stated you are a soldier who goes where he is told, but a few of us have a choice here and will certainly not follow some order blindly.

    I mean if you are being led under false information and lies, how are you making things better/have/or even really know that you are?

    The whole sending people around the world...we pick and choose our battles. Do you honestly think that major planning is the issue when we look at Africa and NK?
    I don't just run into a situation without thinking about if first either, and neither does the military despite what you or anyone else might think. I never stated that I believe in the War against Iraq but like I said since I'm a soldier I have to follow orders, unless they are unlawful. I don't know if I'm the type to run and take vengeance if something bad happened to my family, I'd like to think I'm not because that kind of thinking to me is illogical. Though I hate that fact that there is suffering anywhere I can't help everyone but I can at least try to do my job to the best of my ability where I'm at, while I'm here.

    I don't seem to grasp where the dreams of a dictator who/did kill thousands to reach his goal and a young person getting out of school wanting to be a cop are anywhere close to similar. It's one thing to have dreams, it's another to take advantage of people and use murder to accomplish them. A murderer's life isn't any less valuable than your's or mine, to god, but to society and the government, no matter the government it is because that person poses a threat to good order and discipline within the people.

    I don't know that I'm being led under faulse information and lies and neither do you. As I stated earlier if I knew something was wrong I wouldn't do it, especially something as big as a government scandal. I'm low man on the totem pole so-to-speak so I don't get the privilege of having all the high up intel the big-wiggs do. Yes you and everyone not in the military has the choice to not do anything but don't worry about it, we'll do it for you.

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    I don't just run into a situation without thinking about if first either, and neither does the military despite what you or anyone else might think. I never stated that I believe in the War against Iraq but like I said since I'm a soldier I have to follow orders, unless they are unlawful. I don't know if I'm the type to run and take vengeance if something bad happened to my family, I'd like to think I'm not because that kind of thinking to me is illogical. Though I hate that fact that there is suffering anywhere I can't help everyone but I can at least try to do my job to the best of my ability where I'm at, while I'm here..
    Wow..reading between the lines really isn't the key to understanding my post. No one said anything about you or the military running into the situation without thinking first. The point in saying that some stayed behind and thought about the situation first, means, if it smells fishy I am going to hesitate..probably till I figure out what is going on.

    Not thinking it through tho aye...WMDs? People thinking bush is a hero because he makes some speach after 9/11, everyone wanting to rush over to a country that didn't really do much to us,...uhh..hmm real thought went into that I am sure, but that is beside the point I guess. I looked at that and instead of joining the wagon, I sat back and wondered WTF is actually going on.

    Illogical? What happened to that saying about having the "If it isn't happening to me or my family" mentality you were labeling Hassun with? So what if I mentioned revenge, how is that reason any less than just trying to defend the family? Why should someone wanting revenge for what happened to their country any different than what happens to their family? I mean the goal almost seems the same. Or just wanting to stop the terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    I don't seem to grasp where the dreams of a dictator who/did kill thousands to reach his goal and a young person getting out of school wanting to be a cop are anywhere close to similar. It's one thing to have dreams, it's another to take advantage of people and use murder to accomplish them. A murderer's life isn't any less valuable than your's or mine, to god, but to society and the government, no matter the government it is because that person poses a threat to good order and discipline within the people...
    Of course you can't grasp it. You don't even bother to understand the meaning behind it, so what makes you think you have the ability to do so? You try telling me you have the ability when the only thing you took from that part of my post were the results of that guys reign instead of what the hell the definition of a dream means.

    What people? Who's people are they? Remember that saying "One man's terrorist is another man's martyre"? Point of views..all those civilians after the bombings in Iraq cursing America didn't seem that much different from when we cursed those terrorists. Hmmm..I wonder what those people thought of us? What they think about the situation that has continued every sice we arrived.

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    I don't know that I'm being led under faulse information and lies and neither do you. As I stated earlier if I knew something was wrong I wouldn't do it, especially something as big as a government scandal. I'm low man on the totem pole so-to-speak so I don't get the privilege of having all the high up intel the big-wiggs do. Yes you and everyone not in the military has the choice to not do anything but don't worry about it, we'll do it for you.
    Who cares? It doesn't matter if the scandal is real or not, what matters is if we actually believe it. If you knew something was wrong? Like I say, who cares if you actually know, it is what you believe. If you truly believe killing an innocent man is the right thing to do, I am sure you would do it. Like you say, you are just a low man on the totem pole. Whatever info is passed down to you, it doesn't matter if it is realiable, you are a soldier blindly following orders, only believing what they say because that is what you believe is the truth.

    You can take the self righteous military attitude and shuv it. My whole family has been in the military and most are retired. Like I need to be lectured by you when someone far your senior and superior lives right down the street from me. Go ahead and do what you do, but don't try to tell me what is right from wrong or what is action when you can't even provide some proof. So you are over there? Woop doo.

    I don't need to be a soldier to make a difference, serve my country, or save lives, just like the other millions of people living here.

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Quote Originally Posted by Tbaism View Post
    Wow..reading between the lines really isn't the key to understanding my post. No one said anything about you or the military running into the situation without thinking first. The point in saying that some stayed behind and thought about the situation first, means, if it smells fishy I am going to hesitate..probably till I figure out what is going on.

    Not thinking it through tho aye...WMDs? People thinking bush is a hero because he makes some speach after 9/11, everyone wanting to rush over to a country that didn't really do much to us,...uhh..hmm real thought went into that I am sure, but that is beside the point I guess. I looked at that and instead of joining the wagon, I sat back and wondered WTF is actually going on.

    Illogical? What happened to that saying about having the "If it isn't happening to me or my family" mentality you were labeling Hassun with? So what if I mentioned revenge, how is that reason any less than just trying to defend the family? Why should someone wanting revenge for what happened to their country any different than what happens to their family? I mean the goal almost seems the same. Or just wanting to stop the terrorists?



    Of course you can't grasp it. You don't even bother to understand the meaning behind it, so what makes you think you have the ability to do so? You try telling me you have the ability when the only thing you took from that part of my post were the results of that guys reign instead of what the hell the definition of a dream means.

    What people? Who's people are they? Remember that saying "One man's terrorist is another man's martyre"? Point of views..all those civilians after the bombings in Iraq cursing America didn't seem that much different from when we cursed those terrorists. Hmmm..I wonder what those people thought of us? What they think about the situation that has continued every sice we arrived.



    Who cares? It doesn't matter if the scandal is real or not, what matters is if we actually believe it. If you knew something was wrong? Like I say, who cares if you actually know, it is what you believe. If you truly believe killing an innocent man is the right thing to do, I am sure you would do it. Like you say, you are just a low man on the totem pole. Whatever info is passed down to you, it doesn't matter if it is realiable, you are a soldier blindly following orders, only believing what they say because that is what you believe is the truth.

    You can take the self righteous military attitude and shuv it. My whole family has been in the military and most are retired. Like I need to be lectured by you when someone far your senior and superior lives right down the street from me. Go ahead and do what you do, but don't try to tell me what is right from wrong or what is action when you can't even provide some proof. So you are over there? Woop doo.

    I don't need to be a soldier to make a difference, serve my country, or save lives, just like the other millions of people living here.
    Sounds like you really got yer panties in a bunch here, I'll elaborate how I got my answers out of your questions a bit better I guess. It actually sounds like you read a bit too much into my words.

    I said that I nor the military rushes in despite w/e you or anyone else thinks to counter your comment "Not everyone rushes in without thinking the situation through". Since we are talking about the military and what it's doing in/to Iraq I figured you'd get it. The only people who think Bush is a hero are idiots. Bush was pressured by the country and his own since of "patriotism" let's call it, to go into Iraq and Afganistan. WMD's...who knows, I don't and neither do you, it's a dead subject. Illogical, yes I do think that running off to take revenge would be but I never said anything about any different type of revenge being different than another. Revenge is revenge. Wanting to stop terrorists is one thing, wanting to rule a nation through murder and despair is another.

    Of course everyone has dreams and asperations, so because Sadaam's dreams consisted of ruling a country no matter the cost we should just let him murder people to gain his goals? (just an example) So now you can read my mind and know what I can and cannot learn? I know exactly what you are talking about, I gave you a soldier's perspective on the matter. Hopefully you can understand that now with the above paragraph. There will always be those few people who want to hold on the the past, I can tell you this though, 90% of the locals I've met in Iraq are damn thankfull that we are here to train their Army/Police and to provide help when we can where we can.

    Right and wrong govern our everyday lives, only a sick and twisted person would think that killing innocent people was right. I could believe all day long that killing babies and eating their flesh would make me stronger but does that mean I'm right, morally or generally? Once again I'm forced to say that I do not follow orders blindly, I have an obligation to turn down morally wrong orders, and if I thought I was being led in the wrong direction I would do something about it just like any other right minded person would.

    Damn near your entire last paragraph was ment to be insulting? Eh, I can shrug it off nonetheless. So you had or have military personnel in your family, good that you have a core and some discipline within it. Once again I never tried to tell you what is right from wrong, (killing babies and eating their flesh= WRONG!) I gave you my opinion on what I though was right or wrong and my proof was in my opinions. Yeah I'm over here, go me.

    I also never said that anyone needed to be a soldier to make a difference, I just said that do what you will and we'll take care of the rest.

  5. #61
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    Re: But why Iraq??

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    Sounds like you really got yer panties in a bunch here, I'll elaborate how I got my answers out of your questions a bit better I guess. It actually sounds like you read a bit too much into my words.
    As if I need a masters to figure out what you are saying or where you are comming from. You state very clearly where your point of view comes from, so don't try to play on words or backtrack to your posts or mine as a counter; you fail misserably at it.

    In what posts are you specifying anything in which the interpretation isn't as simple as the words you type? To think I would have to read your mind to get that or truly be effected. Ha ..what a joke. If you want to make a counter off my posts, you might as well go alllll the way back to since I first started, if you feel like figuring anything about what I write or who I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    A dead subject.
    What do you think the topic of this thread is? Whay do you think "But why Iraq??" means? The creater of this wants exactly what I am talking about and asked what our opinions and view points are about what has happened and why it happened. How are pretense stated opinons a dead subject when that is suppose to be the topic?

    Have you ever been to an English class, or did you just not understand what this whole thread was about? Current events wasn't the sole subject to be discussed here, neither were they part of the original essence.

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    Illogical, yes I do think that running off to take revenge would be but I never said anything about any different type of revenge being different than another. Revenge is revenge. Wanting to stop terrorists is one thing, wanting to rule a nation through murder and despair is another.
    ^
    This paragraph...

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    Of course everyone has dreams and asperations, so because Sadaam's dreams consisted of ruling a country no matter the cost we should just let him murder people to gain his goals? (just an example) So now you can read my mind and know what I can and cannot learn? I know exactly what you are talking about, I gave you a soldier's perspective on the matter. Hopefully you can understand that now with the above paragraph. There will always be those few people who want to hold on the the past, I can tell you this though, 90% of the locals I've met in Iraq are damn thankfull that we are here to train their Army/Police and to provide help when we can where we can.
    ^
    ...this paragraph...

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    Right and wrong govern our everyday lives, only a sick and twisted person would think that killing innocent people was right. I could believe all day long that killing babies and eating their flesh would make me stronger but does that mean I'm right, morally or generally? Once again I'm forced to say that I do not follow orders blindly, I have an obligation to turn down morally wrong orders, and if I thought I was being led in the wrong direction I would do something about it just like any other right minded person would.
    ^
    ....and this paragraph don't belong here. Even though this particular one is extremely disturbing and sick..it really really doesn't belong here.

    "So now you can read my mind and know what I can and cannot learn?"
    Quote - Fled79

    Like I stated at the beginning, I don't need a masters to figure you out; nor do I need the ability to read your mind or know what you cannot learn. Why go through the trouble when I can just emphasis your posts like I have been doing, and just use it as proof. Since you are still babbling this simple minded garbage, all I have to do is sit here and point out that you yourself are just giving me examples of what's exactly my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    Damn near your entire last paragraph was ment to be insulting? Eh, I can shrug it off nonetheless. So you had or have military personnel in your family, good that you have a core and some discipline within it. Once again I never tried to tell you what is right from wrong, (killing babies and eating their flesh= WRONG!) I gave you my opinion on what I though was right or wrong and my proof was in my opinions. Yeah I'm over here, go me.
    Meant to be insulting? Hah, like I had to drop myself so low at that point. It means..come back when you are a bit older and have some experience if you feel like trying to explain something to me. In other words, you have no place in that field. - By the way..referring to that whole baby thing is still disturbing and sick and still doesn't need to be here. This paragraph doesn't belong here either.

    Quote Originally Posted by fled79 View Post
    I also never said that anyone needed to be a soldier to make a difference, I just said that do what you will and we'll take care of the rest.
    It seems you are mistaken with this comment. ^

    This is what you said - "Yes you and everyone not in the military has the choice to not do anything but don't worry about it, we'll do it for you."

    This is what I said - "Go ahead and do what you do,.." Eh..you can always scroll back and fix that later when you use that counter method of yours.

    Don't insult people and try to back away from it, just makes you look like a coward. Or atleast make it so your posts match what you feel or are trying to explain when you state things meant to be read word for word; either it just makes you look like a liar. That isn't fit for a soldier of your class accompanied by that superiority complex.

    I don't really need to make posts to insult you, you seem to do that well all by yourself. It is just when you try to intimidate me(how hard you try..so cute), or insult a large community of people(frequently if I might add), is when I will step down to your level and use my favorite hobby in such a shameful and disgusting way.

    This post...like many other ones I have posted..are pleading that you read and try to understand anothers point of view before you start trying to throw yours in their face. Like I have said many times as well..a little research can go a long way.

    I will leave under the quote that some of my favorite anime characters have spoken - You are 100 years too early!
    Last edited by Tbaism; May 06, 2007 at 11:22 PM.

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    Re: But why Iraq??

    So after agruing with myself for about 30 minutes on how exactly to post to your comment while being civil, I've come to the conclusion that I really don't need to. While I don't need all the facts or details to grasp a situation I've decided to let my posts speak for themselves and anyone who can intelligently discern them will clearly see that my opinions are just my opinions. The few facts that have been thrown into my posts are from experiences I've encountered so I'm not really worried about those.

    I'm sure you'll respond with your usual "superior minded lingo" and get in a battle of words to try and knock my opinions down like you have been, or try and convince me that they are invalid so go for it. Don't forget to use half a sentence of mine (not all of it of course) to create a paragraph for yourself while trying to confuse readers about my opinions or thoughts. Also, make sure you call me a coward, liar or say that I have a superiority complex and that I'm simple minded again it sooo makes me want to continue our little "debate" if you will.

    WMD's..Yeah they are a dead subject, (in Iraq, since we're talking about Iraq)have been for some time since we didn't find any and it was discussed elsewhere. How did you figure I was talking about the entire thread when I specifically said WMD's? Anyway I'll read you next post but I probably won't reply to it because it's become irritating defending myself in every post and having to re-explain everything I type because some people can't understand examples, or explainations the first time. By the way, the first sentense wasn't refering to wether or not I wanted to be "civil" it was refering to the fact that I didn't know how to reply to your comments in your last post. I figured I'd explain that one because I could see how it could be a bit missleading. So this is it for me I suppose, people will read the posts or they won't and they'll form their own opinions on what is written. I am not in a position to judge anyone's opinions or tell them that they don't matter and I won't, all I can do is give mine, listen to theirs and go about my business.

    HA, I almost forgot about the baby thing. It was just an example of how people think some things are right and can be way wrong, I didn't think that was hard to figure out but...

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