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Thread: capital punishment

  1. #25
    Otaku Chubz may be famous one day Chubz may be famous one day Chubz's Avatar
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    From what I've read, the cost of executing a prisoner is greater than senting to life once you include all aspects of conviction. I got this stuff from Amnesty Internationals website, which are several surveys done about execution:

    A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).
    (December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit)
    The estimated costs for the death penalty in New York since 1995 (when it was reinstated): $160 million, or approximately $23 million for each person sentenced to death. To date, no executions have been carried out.
    (The Times Union, Sept. 22, 2003)
    In Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
    (2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research)


    As for personal opion, I'm split on the issue. Capital punishment was originally a public engagement for everyone to see because it was believed that seeing an execution would act as a deterrant to would be criminals. However, if you look at England from the middle-to-modern ages, the system was quite flawed. While executions did happen semi-regularly, there was actually a line of leniency towards convicted criminals, and executions were rarely done when compared to the amount of crimes that were deemed capital punishments. The term "the bloody code" referred to England's law system which had over 200 laws all deemed to be capital offences punishable by death (the majority of them were added after the British Revolution). But to cut a long history short, since the law WAS so strict about death penalties, the judges themselves were more leniant in their rulings.

    The major switch with death penalties came in the mid to late 1700's, when reformers saw that public executions weren't working as deterrants, and execution grounds became bawdy houses, rampant with pick-pocketing, cursing, prostitution, gambling, etc, and there was little attention paid to the fact that a man was about to be sent to Heaven or Hell. Due to reformist attitudes (and due to the Enlightenment) more emphasis was placed on rehabilitation, and state executions were moved to inside prison walls, where the crowd couldn't watch (they believed that knowing someone had been executed produced the same effect as having watched it). And pretty much that's where we've been left off today. A mixture between rehabilitation, and private executions.

    I honestly don't believe in the death penalty, though there are times when I think they should just take the guy out to a field and shoot him. I think one of the problems with jails is that human rights groups have moved in and complain that the jails are too harsh and whatnot. In my opinion, I think jails should simply be a concrete cell, with crappy food. If you know you're going to have a crappy time in jail, you're not gonna want to go back. But right now, jails are so leniant....(one of the jails around here has a little golf-course)...you get tv, you get exercise, reading material, good food...it's pretty much a camp paid for by the public. Let them sit in a concrete cell, and soon enough they'll either wanna commit suicide, or never go back there again.

    Death penalties are done through such a bureaucratic system that it's not really worth it. The only way people know the person has been put to death is through the newspaper, so the only immediate effect it has is on the family. A couple million dollars has been wasted just so that maybe a handful of people care that he's dead. Of course, then you look at China, which has one of the highest execution rates, and they charge the family for the bullet in the back of their sons head....and you think "wow....that's insanely harsh." but if it was a deterrant, then technically China's execution rates shouldn't be so high, because they've been executing people for a loooong time.

    I guess to finish this post, it's sort of a "damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't" problem with execution. I guess if I had to put my foot down, I'd have to say no, but some cases make you really think about switching...

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  2. #26
    Otaku Barronmore may be famous one day Barronmore may be famous one day Barronmore's Avatar
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    A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).
    I would imagine they would cost more. There are a great many appeals that are automatically heard in a death penalty case. More time in court means a higher cost.

    Does capital punishment really work?
    Under the current system? No. There has been to much 'politicking' of the death penalty issue. To many proponents and opponents getting in the way fo the system. On paper, it's a pretty easy process. You get your case, if your found guilty you get an automatic appeal (sometimes more then one). It can take decades for a case to make it through the court system. If cases could be processed faster and the punishment administered in a more timley manner, we might see more 'desired' results then we do now.

    Anyway, here's an interesting article on lethal injection from "How Stuff Works". It takes a good look at the whole process. Definatly worth reading.

    Howstuffworks "How Lethal Injection Works"

  3. #27
    Otaku Chubz may be famous one day Chubz may be famous one day Chubz's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd have to agree that if the time between conviction and execution were sped up, it might create a more desired effect. Of course, then it'd be argued that there's no time for the convicted to prove their innocence.

    I think that if the death penalty were allowed in Canada, it should only be for cases where the convicted are proven guilty 100%, where there is no doubt that they were involved. Like, if you're caught standing by a dead body with a knife in your hand.....chances are you did it. I think hard evidence in serious crimes should allow for the death penalty, depending on the severity of the crime.

    To give an example of how stupid our system is up here, there was an member of the Saskatchewan legislature who hired hitmen to kill his wife....he got duped by the hitmen then decided to do the job himself, so he beat his wife, then shot her in the head in their garage.

    He was convicted of first-degree murder, with no chance of parole of 25 years. Apparently the RCMP botched the job, and they could have nailed him with more evidence, but they still managed to get the first degree murder conviction.

    Originally he was sent to jail in Saskatchewan, but he complained about the conditions there, so the government had him shipped over to BC, which cost taxpayers a pretty penny.

    Then, not too long ago, he actually had the government PAY to ship his horses that he owned over to BC, so that he could ride them while out on his recreation breaks, and the government complied. That cost the taxpayers even more money.

    I mean...you have to stop and think....why is the government allowing him all this leeway, when he was convicted of first degree murder?? Like....lock him in a dank cell for 25 years and leave him there. We shouldn't have to pay for his horses or any of that.....he shouldn't be allowed access to any of that.

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  4. #28
    Otaku Barronmore may be famous one day Barronmore may be famous one day Barronmore's Avatar
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    Getting the Death Penalty is not an easy thing here. Assuming the prosicuter can even pursue it, he has a greater responsibility to prove the defendant did it. He MUST have a rock solid case to get the conviction for death. Once the conviction is given, the defendant AUTOMATICLY is given an appeal so the case can be reviewed on a number of grounds.

    The founding fathers were very werry of government wrongfully imprisoning/excuting people. There are a number of safeguards in the death penatly system. Here's what a prosicutor must be able to do in the states to get a death sentence convition.

    1. Must prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime. This standard is more diffucult to prove for a death penalty case then a life in prison case. He's effectivley made is case harder but feels there is enough evidence to get the conviction.

    2. A jury of 12 people must find the defendant guilty, and then agree that death is an appropriate punishment.

    3. There is an automatic appeal for the case. The appeal looks not only at the evidence again, but also at the proecedues of the case. If any inproprities are found there is usually a new trial.

    4. Depending on the state, lawyers can keep appealing a case over and over and over again unitl the state finally says enough is enough. Considering taht each appeal can take 2-4 years, you can see how someone can end up on death row for decades.

    The point is, we just don't casualy exicute someone. There is a lot that goes into it. But they have been finding that some inmates are innocent and exhonorate them. I'm not sure what the percentages are though. I havn't been able to find any online.

  5. #29
    Newbie lightningsykes may be famous one day lightningsykes may be famous one day lightningsykes's Avatar
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    I used to work as a correctional officer and i am for the death penalty all they do is sit around and do nothing not even think about what they have done to be put there behind bars

  6. #30
    Shichibukai JefferyXie may be famous one day JefferyXie may be famous one day JefferyXie's Avatar
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    I would hate the death penalty coz it takes your life away more quicker.sure if u were imprisioned for life,its more boring but u still live and have the chance 2 repent from your life of crimes.

  7. #31
    Otaku Barronmore may be famous one day Barronmore may be famous one day Barronmore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JefferyXie View Post
    I would hate the death penalty coz it takes your life away more quicker.sure if u were imprisioned for life,its more boring but u still live and have the chance 2 repent from your life of crimes.
    The fact that you are losing your life is the point. The crime you commited was so horrible that you are pretty much deemed unworthy of re-intering society.

    Repentance is between you and God. Death Row will not get in the way of that. If you truly have repented of those crimes that landed you there, then you will have no fear of death when that time comes. But part of repentance is accepting the consiquences of your sin. If one of those conciquences is death then you will fully accept it as part of your repentance process.

  8. #32
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Well, I was avoiding this thread because I just came from a forum with alot of vindictive people on it discussing the same topic. This seems to have been a rather civil discussion however.

    I am for the death penalty myself and Barronmore has covered most of the points. The only thing left to say is that it is not about mercy, it is not about vengance, it is about justice and protecting the civil society from others. I do not believe in 'cruel and unusual' punishment and in my opinion maximun security prisons have become just that by the very presence of the prisoners incarcerated there. We have an entirely new set of words to describe the experience from 'prison bitch' to 'prison bait' to other ones not fit for company. If they are that dangerous they should be executed for both societies sake and their own/other prisoners.

    Of course I also believe that minimum security prisons should return to being work camps where they support their own living.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverskater145 View Post
    The United States is the only civilized country in the world that has established capital punishment of some kind. The United States is also the nation with the most murders in the world, and it has nothing to do with the population size. Think about that. Does capital punishment really work?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm sure someone like Len just might do. I have not proof-checked my info, I'll give you guys that much.
    Two points.

    Define civilized. And here's your link to the countries that do and do not have capitol punishment. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

    Second. There is a direct corelation between population density and violent crime. I can't find it ( ) but there is a chart that shows that and actually correlates homicide with population. It's very illuminating and once you take 'suicides' into account shows very little differnce in the rates between the US and Japan (one of the 'safest' countries).

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