Thread: capital punishment

Originally Posted by Arrianna

No, you have it right. The only thing you missed is that when Christ said the laws were fullfilled he is talking about the laws of sacrifice or the religious ceremony that were symbolic of his comming.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

He never said "I have changed the law of government".

So if you stand there and say that God wouldn't have capitol punishment I would like to know what that is based on since the only government he made did.

...and yes, the old testiment matters. Especially since the 10 commandments are part of that law that you are saying is unimportant. Where in the new testiment does it say to follow the 10 commandments but forget the rest of it?

...I think this is on topic.


PS. Thanks Len. I can see why there is concern with crime dropping steadily but homicide remaing level. I can see why there are statements that the level of violence in crimes is increasing in spite of the drop.

The scripture you put there meant the prophecies that had to do with Jesus in these parts of scripture. He even said, "concerning me"
That has absolutely nothing to do with any laws at all. All "laws" mean in this sense are the books and writings that Moses wrote.

In Matthew 5 38-48, Jesus directly says that the laws of revenge are ones that not longer are applied:
"You have heard that it was said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one stirkes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well;and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you nay be sons of your Father who is in heaven for he makes the sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain to fall on the just and unjust. For if you love those who love you what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Chapter Five of Matthew does a great job of telling exactly how laws changed from the OT. Please look there for further reference. ^_^

The only gov't that God instucted was changed by God Himself. And the laws were changed to love those who have done harm to you and your family and to forgive them. This Amish do a good job of displaying this. They have no hard feelings for the man who murdered those children last week, but instead forgive and move on right away. And even more, they pray for his family.

Originally Posted by Pteronophobia

The scripture you put there meant the prophecies that had to do with Jesus in these parts of scripture. He even said, "concerning me"
That has absolutely nothing to do with any laws at all. All "laws" mean in this sense are the books and writings that Moses wrote.

That is exactly my point. It has to do with prophesis and the aplication of religion not the government.

Originally Posted by Pteronophobia

Chapter Five of Matthew does a great job of telling exactly how laws changed from the OT. Please look there for further reference. ^_^

I love to, it's one of my favorites. However again it is obvious that it is talking about individual behavior/religion and not government.

The claim that the laws of government no longer aply are based on this verse;
Mathew 5:17 "¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

As you just pointed out however that is reference to the prophecies and cerimonies pertaining to Jesus.

Also if we look at verse 25 "Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison." or verse 40 "And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also." You will notice that they are instructed to follow the laws and it never says they have been replaced. Just as in the other verse about paying taxes.

So on what are you basing your belief that God does not believe in capitol punishment since the only government he ever made had it and it was not condemed in the New Testiment?

The only gov't that God instucted was changed by God Himself. And the laws were changed to love those who have done harm to you and your family and to forgive them. This Amish do a good job of displaying this. They have no hard feelings for the man who murdered those children last week, but instead forgive and move on right away. And even more, they pray for his family.

Well thats nice of them and all, but that not how im wired. If my son or daughter was killed like that. Theres no way in hell i would forgive them. Sorry im a OT kind of guy.

if a person can take another person life for no reason, then why should they have a life time of jail while tax payers pay the tab. i think killing murders by court order would be a better at stoping crimes, because people will see the price is their own life, and most people value their own life more than anything else. lastly if a person kill 10 people why should they only get the rest of their life in prision because they cant have 10 life sentences because a person has only 1 life, so i think a painful death would make the victims families have some resolve to know that the person did not get away scott free but was punished and was not the fastest way of death so they can think of all the pain they put the victims and thier families thru.

Capital punishment still occurs in the Eastern part of the world n ppl in the west r trying 2 stop them but r unsuccessful.I guess ppl have their own sense of justice n dat is something can't b changed.

Originally Posted by Death2199

if a person can take another person life for no reason, then why should they have a life time of jail while tax payers pay the tab.

There is always a reason for something and btw, the putting someone to death costs more.

Originally Posted by Death2199

i think killing murders by court order would be a better at stoping crimes, because people will see the price is their own life, and most people value their own life more than anything else.

Actually, nothing has shown that. From what I know it does nothing like that.

Originally Posted by Death2199

think of all the pain they put the victims and thier families thru.

Think of the friends and family of the person who is getting put to death.

There is always a reason for something and btw, the putting someone to death costs more.

It only cost more because of the endless legal drama that goes on. If the system wasn't so broken it would not cost more.

Actually, nothing has shown that. From what I know it does nothing like that.

Again, there are studies that have shown it does work and those that show it does not. Under the current legal system where you can die of natural causes on death row LONG before your legal appeals are over. What fear is there of the death penalty if you know you odds of dying before being executed are great?

Think of the friends and family of the person who is getting put to death.

So we should be more concerned with how the family feels then justice? If were concerned about their feelings if we put them do death, shouldn't we be concerned about their feelings if we put them in jail? What's the difference between executing them and locking them away forever? Where do we stop considering the feelings of the criminal's family?

Frankly I find the whole 'feelings' argument from either side to be ridiculous. The criminal justice system is supposed to be about JUSTICE not about how someone feels. Don't get me wrong, I can understand why victims would be upset and WANT vengeance, but honestly, I don't think the criminal justice system should be about extracting revenge for people...or considering the feelings of others. It should be about justice. Period!