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Thread: changing the pledge of alligance

  1. #25
    Otaku Chubz may be famous one day Chubz may be famous one day Chubz's Avatar
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    Re: changing the pledge of alligance

    Yeah, I read about the guy you're talking about. The problem is, the guy that launched the suit to have it changed has filed lawsuits with a dozen other organizations to have any reference to religion moved. It's ONE guy trying to have his view represented, while quashing others. Plus, he seems like he's just trying to get his 15 minutes of airtime due to the number of frivolous suits he's launched (I believe the majority of them have failed). I forget what the guy's name is.

    I don't think they should change the pledge of allegiance.....if a child doesn't want to say it, don't force them. Problem solved. I don't believe that there is a big enough athiest movement to actually warrant somehow changing to their views. I don't know what percentage believe in God, but most people haven't had a problem with it until this guy started ringing his bells.
    However, you could possibly argue that the pledge of allegiance should represent a seperation of church and state, but it is a somewhat weak argument.

    The minute that you have 51% of the population out marching in the streets to have it changed, maybe then you should change it. But the suit came from a single guy, who's just trying to get attention.

    *Edit...found some info on the guy:

    In November of 2005, Newdow announced he wants to have "In God We Trust" removed from U.S. money. In a November 14, 2005 interview with Fox News' Neil Cavuto, Newdow compared "In God We Trust" being on U.S. Currency with segregation (specifically separate drinking fountains), saying "How can you not compare those? What is the difference there? Both of them (whites and blacks) got equal water. They both had access. It was government saying that it's OK to separate out these two people on the basis of race. Here we're saying it's OK to separate two people on the basis of their religious beliefs." In June of 2006, a federal judge rejected this lawsuit, on the grounds that the minted words amount to a secular national slogan, and they do not dictate anyone's beliefs. Newdow stated that he would appeal the ruling.

    Many Thanks To SasuraiHell For The Sig!

  2. #26
    Dear Prudence JustLoseIt may be famous one day JustLoseIt may be famous one day JustLoseIt's Avatar
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    Re: changing the pledge of alligance

    Concerning the whole Taking God out of the allegiance.

    There was a SUPER old thread I made and I'll just quote all I have to say about this from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustLoseIt View Post
    "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." These are the words of George Washington and I wholeheartedly agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Bradford
    "The moral of the country is deeply engrafted upon Christianity, and not upon the doctrines or worship of other religions. In people whose manners are refined, and whose morals have been elevated and inspired with a more enlarged benevolence, it is by means if the Christian religion. This first amendment declaration never meant to withdraw religion, and with it the sanctions of moral and social obligation from all consideration and notice of law. Whatever strikes at the root of Christianity tends manifestly to the dissolution of civil government, because it tends to corrupt the morals of the people, and to destroy good order.
    An attack on Jesus Christ was an attack on Christianity,and an attack on Christianity was an attack on the FOUNDATION of our Country. Therefore an attack on Jesus christ was equivalent to an attack on our country."

    So for us to take Jesus and the Bible out of schools and take God out of the pledge of allegiance is forgetting why it was there in the first place!
    What if we were to take away anything and everything that had to do with God? What would we have left? We would have nothing.
    At the constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the PERFECT governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;"For the Lord is our Judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our King;He will save us."




    Quote Originally Posted by George Washington
    Our founding father put God in our country for a reason, to teach Everyone of Christ and of the Ten Commandments.
    Think about it, if we were all brought up in Christ and of his Word, would there be as many Theives,murderers,rapists,terrorists? What about Abortianists?



    America is the land of the free.

    Freedom TO worship not FROM worship.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    The Pilgrims came here To Be ABLE to worship under the religion that there is but One God whether you be Catholic, Baptist ,Christian, whatever.

    So, now in todays world we are trying to take God out of our Pledge. We need to keep God IN! Even if your not Christian. But being brought up by the Christian PRINCIPLES.

    Ten Commandments for example, Now I know no matter what that there WILL ALWAYS be Murderers rapists and so forth..But would there AS MANY if we were ALL brought up better?
    I mean sure there would still be rebels.

    Point is is that by saying that our founding fathers didn't MEAN to come here with God in the front lines of their calling and what they were seeking, is lies, look up some quotes from William Bradford and George washington.

    People today are saying that "Well since they didn't really care if God was apart of what they were then why should we?" Is nonsense..because in fact they DID want God apart of their lives and part of their new found country.

    ----------------------------------------------
    YOU have the choice of whether or not YOU believe in God and follow his principles.
    I'm not and no one is saying that we are going to force you into anything.

    But what I AM saying is that, We CAME here to America with God in our minds.
    And now people are trying to take it out of what we put it in in the first place.

    Just because its there doesn't mean you HAVE to believe.

    But for people to Start complaining NOW that they don't like the fact that God is in our pledge and what not, I mean COME on. It's been there since the day the pledge was created because this country is a Godly nation.

    It doesn't harm anyone, It's not going to ruin your life, It's our pledge of ALLEGIENCE to our country and if some one just doesn't happen to like the fact that God is in it, then I mean seriously. Why SHOULD we take it out?

    Whether you or anyone Believes in God or not.

    Go ahead and don't believe, thats your choice and I nor anyone else can make that decision for you. Were not trying to pound God in you and force you to do anything.

    Yes, you may feel uncomfortable about God being in whatever because thats just the way you feel about the situation.

    But then, what about other countries and THEIR Basic religion. Hm?
    If you go there and feel uncomfortable, are you going to complain to them about how they need to take Buddha or whomever out of their country because it annoys you...or what have you?

    Well if you did you'd get shot down lol^.^

    And Think AMERICANS are the ones complaining about our own country!
    If you don't like it then go live in another country!
    Not to be rude.

    And if some one is THAT determined, then they should think what they DO have.
    I mean No one has ever forced upon someone to be a Christian because of our laws. Or to believe in God. Or anything.

    We all have the right to Choose!

    So for people to COMPLAIN about God being in what its been in for Generations and generations, is to me, rather pathetic. NO OFFENSE to anyone.

    I'm just sayin it like it is in my heart^.^
    I hate no one.

    All the GOOD Morals that Unbelievers have are DERIVED from the Religions of Christ. Be it Catholic, Christian, Baptist, Whatever.

    Whether they got it from a Book or from someone teaching them to be good.

    They are DERIVED from that of Christ.

    So for us to take that out of our Country and everywhere anyway, Is Just...Well not good!

    Thanks Pyroo. :]

  3. #27
    THUMBSUCKING ADDICTION Mr. K is making a name for themselves Mr. K is making a name for themselves Mr. K's Avatar
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    Re: changing the pledge of alligance

    Don't people get that America's Laws were bulit off the Bible. Well most of them. I mean we got the 10 commandments hanging up somewhere in Washington D.C

    IF you change the money, and the pledge. Your changing America too.

    :O Its been centuries, and I find that as we make are way though the raist, phases of a nation. People have to go and say we don't like other religious beliefs.

    To any fights start over religious beliefs, and its silly. If a Nations bulit off one thing, no one has a right to go changing it!

    If you don't like it! LEAVE!

    ok don't leave, but you know. You just can't go changing things.

    Everything JLT said is true too~
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  4. #28
    ~jUsT sMiLe~ _gwenibe_ may be famous one day _gwenibe_ may be famous one day _gwenibe_'s Avatar
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    Re: changing the pledge of alligance

    I'm not from the USA so, I don't get this whole pledge thing but...


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. K View Post


    IF you change the money, and the pledge. Your changing America too.

    How would taking a few words out of the pledge, totally change America?
    It's just a few words, nothing to major or anything..

    But, if people don't have to say it..than whats the point of changing it?

  5. #29
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    Re: changing the pledge of alligance

    Quote Originally Posted by _gwenibe_ View Post
    I'm not from the USA so, I don't get this whole pledge thing but...




    How would taking a few words out of the pledge, totally change America?
    It's just a few words, nothing to major or anything..

    But, if people don't have to say it..than whats the point of changing it?

    To Be honest America is built off religious beliefs.

    When things go wrong, you may as well pick up the bible, and see where you went wrong.

    :O I mean if we get rid of it. We are just changing a little part of USA.

    Even thou people say its not about religious beliefs. Why is it all are laws come from the bible. >.> well Most of them.

    The whole nice part about this whole thing. Is they don't make people say it. Nor kids. We just do. The guy that made it a problem realized what other places realized. :O America is based off religious beliefs.

    >.> I mean cmon. Banks are closed on Sunday, and Malls!

    We keep order this way. :O If you go changing little things!! :O Next thing you know, bye bye Commandments.
    ≥°≤ [?] █▓▒░░▒▓█ [?] ≥°≤
    You know how you drown a blonde, Rosalie? Glue a mirror to the bottom of a pool.
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    Lamie Hynamen "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

  6. #30
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    Re: changing the pledge of alligance

    umm.. so can some one explain to a non-us citizen what the pledge is?
    Is it like something you have to say randomly...><

  7. #31
    Dear Prudence JustLoseIt may be famous one day JustLoseIt may be famous one day JustLoseIt's Avatar
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    Re: changing the pledge of alligance

    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to The Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
    We say this while placing our right hand over our hearts and turning and looking at our countryies flag.

    Thanks Pyroo. :]

  8. #32
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    Re: changing the pledge of alligance

    thank JLI,

    After reading that, why not just skip out the whole go bit if you don't believe it, who knows it might just start something if you convince enough people not too.

    but then again, I don't see the entire point of the pledge...
    I think the only pledge aust has is for our world war veterans and the ones that died - and we only have to say that in RSL clubs and such...
    which is probably why I don't see any point of it..

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