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Thread: chidren and the death penalty

  1. #17
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    Re: chidren and the death penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by frr_vegeta View Post
    Absoltely not. Anyone under the age of 18 should not be given the death penalty regardless of the crime. It is not until that age that cognitive development really comes to a close (in terms of development, not learning of course) and so many of one's abilities to think and deal with changing situations as well as your overall personality have not yet solidified. Someone who at the age of 15 killed a family in cold blood could very well be a normal functioning (and remorseful) individual at the age of 20. They are in essence an entirely different person between those two periods. Children should be incarcerated in special institutions which stress rehabilitation, learning, as well as nurturing for these individuals. At the age of 21 they should then be evaluated and it should be determined whether or not they are ready to be reintegrated into society. Also of importance, their evaluators should have absolutly no knowleged of the crimes the child committed, which would surely bias their findings.

    And for the record, it is my firm belief that nobody should be given the death penalty, regardless of age. After all aren't we one of the last modernized countries to get around to getting rid of it? Many of us still think it's a grand idea.

    ...Reminds me of the American view of slavery a few generations ago. I'm sure in a few generations nearly all Americans will look back upon this time with a bit of disgust towards our demenor in the area of criminal justice, just as we do to our ancestors who engaged in slavery and lynching.
    I dont think its a good thing were one of the last modernized countries to get around to getting rid of it. Just shows the derogation of society. I think slavery and the death penalty are two different things. One is the mis-treating of human beings, and the other is justice.

    What your forgetting vegita is kids grow up faster today. They know what their doing. If a 14-17 commits a horriable act of violence, they should qualify for the death penalty. Also if there that messed up at this age. I dont think a few years of rehabilitation will help em. They will just get out and eventually kill again.


    "Many of us still think it's a grand idea." <----Yes it is!!

  2. #18
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    Re: chidren and the death penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by JKleo View Post
    Well, I personally am completly against the death penalty. But thats different from the topic. It is true that the typical age of a teenager has dropped to the age of around 10-12, but someone of that age has definatly not lived life long enough to know the difference from what's right and wrong. Like Arrianna said, the parents are somewhat responsible, but then again, what kind of parent would talk about rape and murder to their 10 year old kid? At worst, the kid should be sent to rehab or juvy at worst.
    You don't need to talk to them about rape and murder. You start with "don't hurt others" and move to "don't touch anyone there and don't let others touch you". and the rest is taken care of. That's the sort of thing you teach children by the time they are 8 years old. The same age that the concept of right and wrong solidifies as cognitive thinking kicks in. It's the details that vary.


    Now giving someone the death penalty is never automatic. There is all sorts of details that affect the punishment to any crime. If the crime committed has that potential punishment then it should be an option as long as it can be proved that the person responsible understood their actions no matter what the age. I think the point is that the punishment should fit the crime. Period.

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    Re: chidren and the death penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Miroku4444 View Post
    I dont think its a good thing were one of the last modernized countries to get around to getting rid of it. Just shows the derogation of society. I think slavery and the death penalty are two different things. One is the mis-treating of human beings, and the other is justice.

    What your forgetting vegita is kids grow up faster today. They know what their doing. If a 14-17 commits a horriable act of violence, they should qualify for the death penalty. Also if there that messed up at this age. I dont think a few years of rehabilitation will help em. They will just get out and eventually kill again.


    "Many of us still think it's a grand idea." <----Yes it is!!
    Actually from the viewpoint of developmental psychology children are not growing up faster. Some current psychologists even have found evidence for a stage in mental development occuring even after Piaget's Concrete Operational and Formal Operational stages (the Formal operational stage was the final one he spoke of, taking place typically at the age of 11-12 for children in raised in westernized countries.)

    There are certain things that someone of the ages of 3, 5, 7, or even 12 cannot grasp regardless of how much you attempt to teach it to them (such as conservation of volume, if you fill up a tall cup with water, pour the water into a short but wide cup, and as the child about it, at the ages of 3-5 the child will vehemently insist that the tall glass had more water in it) These are matters which in many cases cannot be taught to children, but they will grow to understand as their brain continues to develop.

    I'd love to go into it a bit more in depth but I have abnormal psych right now. But to sum up my arguement: Even at the ages of 12-15 most children more than likely do not understand the course of their actions and hence it is not completely their responsibility. And that this is because their brains still have not developed some methods of thought which can aptly deal with the 'abstract' and look ahead to realize the consequences of the actions they are engaging in now.

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    Re: chidren and the death penalty

    in my opnion i think a child should get the death penalty for harsh brutal crimes that were only for adults. why? becasue a child knows right from wrong as he or she progresses on with life and they know it's wrong to kill, they know it's wrong to rape. and even if they dont fully understand rape, they know it's something they have no bussiness doing. another reason is i believe all that stuff about "oh kids should not get it cuz they aren't mentally developed and are just kids" thats some bull s***. a child knows right from wrong. weather it be taking candy from a baby or just being plain iggnorant and killing. i say the case should be looked at to see if the death penalty fits the crime but if a 10 year old killed and raped a woman, which they can, and then went on with their dailty life i would want them dead

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  5. #21
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    Re: chidren and the death penalty

    Whoa 10 and up? Lol... thats a bit extreme don't you think? I can understand 18 and up your supposed to be mature and now right from wrong, but I don't think that most children 10 and up to 15 don't have a full mature mind yet :/

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  6. #22
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    Re: chidren and the death penalty

    Actually from the viewpoint of developmental psychology children are not growing up faster. Some current psychologists even have found evidence for a stage in mental development occuring even after Piaget's Concrete Operational and Formal Operational stages (the Formal operational stage was the final one he spoke of, taking place typically at the age of 11-12 for children in raised in westernized countries.)
    The key word is some current psychologists. And its just some evidence. Dont sound like strong solid evidence to me. Just a theory? I know some kids develop slow mentally, but i feel most are developed mentally enough to know right from wrong.At least by 13 or 14.Come on look at this messed up society, and how fast kids grow up. Kids in the 50's never did stuff like todays kids.
    There are certain things that someone of the ages of 3, 5, 7, or even 12 cannot grasp regardless of how much you attempt to teach it to them (such as conservation of volume, if you fill up a tall cup with water, pour the water into a short but wide cup, and as the child about it, at the ages of 3-5 the child will vehemently insist that the tall glass had more water in it) These are matters which in many cases cannot be taught to children, but they will grow to understand as their brain continues to develop.
    I wasn't talking about this age group. I was referring to the 13 and up group.Yes these kids should never be charged with a adult crime.
    I'd love to go into it a bit more in depth but I have abnormal psych right now. But to sum up my arguement: Even at the ages of 12-15 most children more than likely do not understand the course of their actions and hence it is not completely their responsibility. And that this is because their brains still have not developed some methods of thought which can aptly deal with the 'abstract' and look ahead to realize the consequences of the actions they are engaging in now.
    Well according to judges that sentenced kids to adult crimes disagree with that. I beg to differ. I say they do understand the course of their actions. I'm not saying all of them just most. Maybe 12 or 13 is too young, but by 14 and 15 they do. Hell i did. Also just because some might have not looked ahead at the consequences, doesnt mean they dont know what they did was wrong. Hell i know some adults that havent "developed some methods of thought which can aptly deal with the 'abstract' and look ahead to realize the consequences of the actions they are engaging in now".

  7. #23
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    Re: chidren and the death penalty

    a 14 year old skipping school and police found her body in the ally and found that she was raped and beaten, if something like that happened it would be a problem for children to the same thing happen to them. so try to teach them something

  8. #24
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    Re: chidren and the death penalty

    The term "just a theory" reflects ignorance in terms of science. Many things we take as given facts are 'just theories'. A theory is a hypothesis that thus far has been supported in experiments and has yet to be proven wrong. The entire science of psychology is nothing but theories, but obviously, psychological drugs for treatment of schizophrenia as well as many other psychological disorders do show improvement, just as many psychological practices, which are merely 'theories' do clearly help individuals. The nature of psychology takes into account many things which cannot be measured, which is why just about anything relating to psychology will always be theoretical.

    Regarding your second point about the age group, I was also referring to the age group of beyond 12 years of age, the first thing you quoted from me connects to the second line you quoted from me. I said that Piaget said there are certain things that cannot be grasped at even 12 years of age, and I said recently it has been found that there are things that may go beyond the age groups Piaget reported on.

    And lastly you have to look at things in perspective. If someone as young as 12-15 has committed murder, it's not because of a relationship, it's not due to money, or a drug deal gone bad (unless they're living in the worst of inner city neighborhoods), most of these murders are far different from the murders commited by adults. A lot of these 'child killers' are due to the environment in which they grew up in. Shoddy parenting has been studied and it has been found in several studies that quite frankly, if the parents are shitty parents, the kid will likely develop antisocial personality traits, which by the time the kid gets in grade school will likely cause the 'normal' peer groups to exclude the child, reinforcing the child's developing antisocial personality. In most cases the child is either forced to be alone, or is forced to join a delinquent peer group, filled with children with similiar conditions. This further reinforces the child's antisociality and becomes a downward spiral and the child is at risk for developing anti-social personality disorder which is one of the most dangerous personality disorders and is the most difficult to treat. The child grows up and develops no understanding or regard for the rights or feelings of others. In children this would be considered conduct disorder, as conduct disorder is considered to develop into anti-social personality disorder once the individual is at least 18 years of age. What I am trying to stress is that many of these 'child killers' did not become killers merely due to their own accord, in many cases they are at rock bottom because as they were growing up, they were probably not raised correctly early in life, or the quality of parenting declined at some point during early to middle childhood (3-9 years old) due to whatever reason (divorce, unemployment, stress) and affected the child's relationship with peers as well as the child's outlook on the world including right and wrong. Antisocial personality disorder sufferers do not recognize the rights of others, therefore what they see as right and wrong is anything but what we see as right and wrong.

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