Are Children Really innocent?

_gwenibe_ · Nov 20, 2007, 12:43 AM

I guess this thread stems on to the many other children thread there are -

I've just finished a year of doing a children and youth literature course, and through out it there were many discussions about the portrayal as the 'Child as innocent'.

Children these days are often seen as innocent, can do nothing wrong etc etc. We seem to want to hide them from the reality of life (death,wars, murder, rape, sex etc etc).

So for example, one arguement that was brought up in class is how books have changed. Once open a time books told the harsh realities of life ( such as a book called Struwelpter which harshly told of what would happen to naughty boys and girls) today, books seems to hide realities of life with cute little fairies or dinosaurs.

Also, the point was brought up that children too are also just humans capable of doing right or wrong.

another example, we know of stories of children commiting serious crimes, some of them get away free with just a slap on the wrist, yet if an adult did the same thing, fines and jail would be the punishment.

So my questions to AO:

Why/ Why not are we hiding children from realities of the world and Should we be?

Are children really innocent - why, why not?

What about children who commit serious crimes? Should they get similar punishment to their adult conterparts?

explore AO

btw these are nesecarily my views, just a start of a discussion, I shall add my bit later

*rematche* · Nov 20, 2007, 12:49 AM

everyone is innocent for only a moment including the children. it just the matter of time for children to loose their innocent especially in this fast times and i can surely say most of them will turn out to be bad...really bad kids.

*Lasura* · Nov 20, 2007, 02:01 AM

I think children really do some things not understanding if that is bad, little children don't have such sence of right and wrong. I don't think children do bad things just to be bad, they are not evil, that comes with time- some people just find it's easier to live if you are using other people, lying to other people, sometimes... killing....

I don't know about the other quiestion... There are things which you should hide and there are things witch you should not. It also deppends on how you tell them things...

Arukih · Nov 20, 2007, 08:04 AM

I think they r innocent til they got 2 year old, after that age GEEZ forget it...they may know more than their own grandparents... my nieces and my nephews defenily are not Innocent

*LordCastigator* · Nov 20, 2007, 08:24 AM

Interesting little topic you have here. Might have my little say if that's alright.

I think they are innocent, as in they don't know how dangerous the world can be, nor know right from wrong until taught. I've heard of some kids actually having a strong sense of right & wrong from a very early age, but am yet to see that myself unfortunately. Apparently, fairy tales like the three Little Pigs, Little Red Riding Hood & a few others were actually featuring nothing but humans as their cast when originally written, with none of the details left out at bed time.

Today, in a world where real life bloodshed & horror is as close as the latest news update or internet click, it almost seem like some people are trying to wrap children in bubble wrap. I'm not saying don't protect them, heck there's a lot to protect them from, but some seem to take it too far.I'm not a parent myself, however I'm the oldest in our family & even before Dad died, we all watched out for each other. Heck, if my sister, the youngest & still a teen, should ever get into trouble with the rest of us around, she should be fine with a older brother who's a professional security guard, & I know how dangerous I can be in a fight...

Personally, I think they are innocent & it'd be great to keep them that way forever in this at times dangerous world, but that's not gonna work in my eyes. Best you can do in my eyes, plus what I've been doing with my sister, is slowly introduce them to the world at a steady pace. Let them know what's going on, at a level that's about right for their age. Sure, there's details they won't be old enough to understand or that you don't want them to know too much about, but just try to be nice about it. "That's something you'll learn about when you're older" was something I said every now & again while my sister was younger, but I was never nasty about it. I guess it comes down to timing & location.

*anime_being_god* · Nov 20, 2007, 09:45 AM

childern are innocent to a certain extent. They need to be taught right or wrong before they can be considered guilty

Titanofdeath · Nov 20, 2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anime_being_god

childern are innocent to a certain extent. They need to be taught right or wrong before they can be considered guilty

I agree with anime he has a great point you cant ask that cause it is how the kid is thought you can teach a kid how to kill someone and that doesnt make him innocent but it is not hes falt that he knows rigth form wrong.

*divine_punishment* · Nov 20, 2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _gwenibe_

So my questions to AO:

Why/ Why not are we hiding children from realities of the world and Should we be?

Are children really innocent - why, why not?

What about children who commit serious crimes? Should they get similar punishment to their adult conterparts?

Children are born innocent and their environment corrupts them. Children are like sponges; they absorb EVERYTHING, what the media throws at them, what their parents do, what their friends do.

We shouldn't sugarcoat everything merely for the sake of our children. They will have to be disillusioned one day. However, we shouldn't bombard them with rape, murder, racism, etc. Gradual revelation is better.

When children commit serious crimes, they should be punished in a similar, yet less weighty manner than their adult counterparts. Juvenile detention centres are already in place in some locations and - with supervision, naturally - they do quite well. I'm not saying give a child the death penalty (I'm against the death penalty, anyway), but the older the child the more capable he/she is of knowing WHY what they did was wrong and choosing it anyway.

*atomik_sprout* · Nov 20, 2007, 10:37 AM

I suppose it depends on the child's background. I like to think that children are pure, innocent. But, if they have s****y parents, then chances are they'll grow to be just as s****y. If you're born in an area where adults could give a crap less about the well being of thier children, then yeah, those kids are gonna pretty much raise themselves and fall into temptation, trials, tribulations and all sorts of criminal acts; therefore losing that purity.

If the child is raised properly, disciplined, taught differences between right and wrong, given attention; then that purity stays in tact. Now, I'm speaking of young children. Teenagers are FAR from innocent, LOL. I should know, I used to be one.

*Arrianna* · Nov 20, 2007, 01:36 PM

Why/ Why not are we hiding children from realities of the world and Should we be?
Before a certain age, yes, other then warning them about the dangers like not talking to strangers.

Are children really innocent - why, why not?
For that you need to understand children's mental development. Basically cognitive thinking, the ability to reason things out and draw conclusions develops around the age of 8 and sometimes 9. Previous to that they learn by rote. That is why jokes like "When is it time to go to the Dentist? Tooth hurty." is so funny to children at that age. They don't really understand the reason for similarities between words like that and think they are funny but adult humor that requires reasoning or drawing your own conclusions are beyond them. At that age they are essentially innocent and only know what they have been taught. But they are taught by everything they see and hear so their environment has a HUGE impact on them. That is why people are so angry at the way society tends to poison the minds of these small children before they even become old enough to understand and reason for themselves what is right and wrong.

What about children who commit serious crimes? Should they get similar punishment to their adult counterparts?
That depends entirely on their age. If they are young enough then the fault is mostly that of their environment. If you haven't taught someone under the age of 9 what is wrong and they are being told that the other is acceptable the responsibility is not theirs.

However...

If they are old enough and it can be determined that they understood what they were doing and that it was wrong then they should be prosecuted accordingly. That is the legal measure you always have to prove, did the person understand the criminality of their actions? One last thing to realize in sentencing however is the likelihood of rehabilitation. As those under the age of 16 (or thereabouts) have a significantly higher rate of rehabilitation that should also be taken into account. If you take a child out of a bad environment and provide them with the right guidelines the ones who are not simply choosing to do wrong can change.

mellow maromi · Nov 20, 2007, 01:41 PM

They arent innocent. I live near a bunch of kids and they definitely arent innocent. They are as young as ten, talking about "you wont be talking when my dicks in your mouth" and "kiss the bunny between the ears"

Kids lose their virginity as early as 7th grade. As early as 9 years old they're already cussing and talking like their high schoolers.

Nov 20, 2007, 12:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
_gwenibe_ wtf mate? Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,167 Thanks: 1 Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts Credits: 19,525	Are Children Really innocent? I guess this thread stems on to the many other children thread there are - I've just finished a year of doing a children and youth literature course, and through out it there were many discussions about the portrayal as the 'Child as innocent'. Children these days are often seen as innocent, can do nothing wrong etc etc. We seem to want to hide them from the reality of life (death,wars, murder, rape, sex etc etc). So for example, one arguement that was brought up in class is how books have changed. Once open a time books told the harsh realities of life ( such as a book called Struwelpter which harshly told of what would happen to naughty boys and girls) today, books seems to hide realities of life with cute little fairies or dinosaurs. Also, the point was brought up that children too are also just humans capable of doing right or wrong. another example, we know of stories of children commiting serious crimes, some of them get away free with just a slap on the wrist, yet if an adult did the same thing, fines and jail would be the punishment. So my questions to AO: Why/ Why not are we hiding children from realities of the world and Should we be? Are children really innocent - why, why not? What about children who commit serious crimes? Should they get similar punishment to their adult conterparts? explore AO btw these are nesecarily my views, just a start of a discussion, I shall add my bit later __________________
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Nov 20, 2007, 12:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
rematche Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts Credits: 20,527	Re: Are Children Really innocent? everyone is innocent for only a moment including the children. it just the matter of time for children to loose their innocent especially in this fast times and i can surely say most of them will turn out to be bad...really bad kids. __________________
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Nov 20, 2007, 02:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Lasura Angelic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: In a Demon's Arms Posts: 1,872 Thanks: 56 Thanked 35 Times in 32 Posts Credits: 49,619	Re: Are Children Really innocent? I think children really do some things not understanding if that is bad, little children don't have such sence of right and wrong. I don't think children do bad things just to be bad, they are not evil, that comes with time- some people just find it's easier to live if you are using other people, lying to other people, sometimes... killing.... I don't know about the other quiestion... There are things which you should hide and there are things witch you should not. It also deppends on how you tell them things... __________________ My recommended fanfic: "Dreamer" by Scourge
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Nov 20, 2007, 08:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
Arukih Otaku Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 406 Thanks: 1 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts Credits: 9,730	Re: Are Children Really innocent? I think they r innocent til they got 2 year old, after that age GEEZ forget it...they may know more than their own grandparents... my nieces and my nephews defenily are not Innocent __________________
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Nov 20, 2007, 08:24 AM	#5 (permalink)
LordCastigator Pro Utilitate Hominum Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: You know that feeling, like you're being watched... Posts: 836 Thanks: 8 Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts Credits: 33,649	Re: Are Children Really innocent? Interesting little topic you have here. Might have my little say if that's alright. I think they are innocent, as in they don't know how dangerous the world can be, nor know right from wrong until taught. I've heard of some kids actually having a strong sense of right & wrong from a very early age, but am yet to see that myself unfortunately. Apparently, fairy tales like the three Little Pigs, Little Red Riding Hood & a few others were actually featuring nothing but humans as their cast when originally written, with none of the details left out at bed time. Today, in a world where real life bloodshed & horror is as close as the latest news update or internet click, it almost seem like some people are trying to wrap children in bubble wrap. I'm not saying don't protect them, heck there's a lot to protect them from, but some seem to take it too far.I'm not a parent myself, however I'm the oldest in our family & even before Dad died, we all watched out for each other. Heck, if my sister, the youngest & still a teen, should ever get into trouble with the rest of us around, she should be fine with a older brother who's a professional security guard, & I know how dangerous I can be in a fight... Personally, I think they are innocent & it'd be great to keep them that way forever in this at times dangerous world, but that's not gonna work in my eyes. Best you can do in my eyes, plus what I've been doing with my sister, is slowly introduce them to the world at a steady pace. Let them know what's going on, at a level that's about right for their age. Sure, there's details they won't be old enough to understand or that you don't want them to know too much about, but just try to be nice about it. "That's something you'll learn about when you're older" was something I said every now & again while my sister was younger, but I was never nasty about it. I guess it comes down to timing & location. __________________ The Madman previously known as Daniel219 Thanks a million for this sig Pyro_psyco. Too true... My Gundam story. Please read it, please...
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Nov 20, 2007, 09:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
anime_being_god AO Rebel Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,774 Thanks: 23 Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts Credits: 8,901	Re: Are Children Really innocent? childern are innocent to a certain extent. They need to be taught right or wrong before they can be considered guilty __________________
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Nov 20, 2007, 10:37 AM	#9 (permalink)
atomik_sprout Verbal Vandal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 2,110 Thanks: 62 Thanked 76 Times in 70 Posts Credits: 125,196	Re: Are Children Really innocent? I suppose it depends on the child's background. I like to think that children are pure, innocent. But, if they have s**y parents, then chances are they'll grow to be just as s**y. If you're born in an area where adults could give a crap less about the well being of thier children, then yeah, those kids are gonna pretty much raise themselves and fall into temptation, trials, tribulations and all sorts of criminal acts; therefore losing that purity. If the child is raised properly, disciplined, taught differences between right and wrong, given attention; then that purity stays in tact. Now, I'm speaking of young children. Teenagers are FAR from innocent, LOL. I should know, I used to be one. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/boondocksamurai
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Nov 20, 2007, 01:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
Arrianna Lady Barronmore Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,110 Thanks: 13 Thanked 65 Times in 55 Posts Credits: 47,761	Re: Are Children Really innocent? Why/ Why not are we hiding children from realities of the world and Should we be? Before a certain age, yes, other then warning them about the dangers like not talking to strangers. Are children really innocent - why, why not? For that you need to understand children's mental development. Basically cognitive thinking, the ability to reason things out and draw conclusions develops around the age of 8 and sometimes 9. Previous to that they learn by rote. That is why jokes like "When is it time to go to the Dentist? Tooth hurty." is so funny to children at that age. They don't really understand the reason for similarities between words like that and think they are funny but adult humor that requires reasoning or drawing your own conclusions are beyond them. At that age they are essentially innocent and only know what they have been taught. But they are taught by everything they see and hear so their environment has a HUGE impact on them. That is why people are so angry at the way society tends to poison the minds of these small children before they even become old enough to understand and reason for themselves what is right and wrong. What about children who commit serious crimes? Should they get similar punishment to their adult counterparts? That depends entirely on their age. If they are young enough then the fault is mostly that of their environment. If you haven't taught someone under the age of 9 what is wrong and they are being told that the other is acceptable the responsibility is not theirs. However... If they are old enough and it can be determined that they understood what they were doing and that it was wrong then they should be prosecuted accordingly. That is the legal measure you always have to prove, did the person understand the criminality of their actions? One last thing to realize in sentencing however is the likelihood of rehabilitation. As those under the age of 16 (or thereabouts) have a significantly higher rate of rehabilitation that should also be taken into account. If you take a child out of a bad environment and provide them with the right guidelines the ones who are not simply choosing to do wrong can change. __________________ l Stone Hold l Now We're Cooking! l Thanks to Kaos for the awesome sig!
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Nov 20, 2007, 01:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
mellow maromi AO Animator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 706 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Credits: 11,126	Re: Are Children Really innocent? They arent innocent. I live near a bunch of kids and they definitely arent innocent. They are as young as ten, talking about "you wont be talking when my dicks in your mouth" and "kiss the bunny between the ears" Kids lose their virginity as early as 7th grade. As early as 9 years old they're already cussing and talking like their high schoolers. __________________
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