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Old Jan 28, 2007, 03:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: The Confederate Flag: Racist or A Sign of southern Heritage?

As to the comment about "America has the freedom of practically anything" - freedom of speech and expression are expressly granted in the Constitution. However, certain speech is expressly not granted freedoms, especially when it enfringes on others' freedoms. For example, yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie theater when you know there is no fire is expressly ILLEGAL because of the potential for danger that you are putting people into with your "speech". Also, "hate speech" - that which is inciteful in nature - is not protected either. That is where the issue of "racist symbols" comes into play. It is a gray area, and a lot of public institutions - schools being most of them - outlaw certain clothing it deems as "hate speech".

I, personally, believe that once you start down the path of outlawing certain clothing because of how it "may be interpretted", you should either turn around completely and allow ALL clothing, or you should continue all the way to the end and enforce school uniforms. By "school uniforms", I mean a specific one-color of pant (or skirt option for girls), and a specific one-color buttoned shirt. This way, kids would be allowed to buy various brands of clothing, but would still be in compliance of the "uniform". When everyone at school is wearing the same thing (or virtually the same thing) with no distractions of seeing a lot of skin from the opposite sex, then kids will be able to concentrate more on what they are at school for - TO LEARN!!!!

That being said, the Confederate Flag didn't become a "mainstream" symbol of race-hatred until after groups such as the KKK started using it as "their" symbol. During the Civil War, many blacks fought and died for the Confederate States. Many blacks actually owned slaves - and were prosperous doing so. There is one census in particular that showed the actual percentage of Southern blacks owning slaves was greater than the percentage of Southern whites who owned slaves. There is a tragic misconception that is perpetuated through US history books that makes it seem as if MOST Southern whites were slave-owners. This is not even close to accurate. The VAST MAJORITY of Southern whites could not and did not own slaves. The proposition was just too expensive. On strictly numbers of Southern whites who did own slaves - yes, there were a lot. But as a percentage of the whole population of Southern whites, only a small percentage actually owned slaves. Census records of the time back this up.

So, the Confederate flag was not intended to stand for racial hatred. Many blacks fought and died FOR that very flag. It has since morphed into a "hate symbol", but that is not it's only meaning. So "hate", as well as beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.......
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Old Jan 28, 2007, 10:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: The Confederate Flag: Racist or A Sign of southern Heritage?

The Confederate Flag is not racist in any way shape or form. The confederate flag is an icon representing political ideas and movements. The confederate flag represents the South's view that the North and them had drifted culturally and politically in many aspects and the South should become a seperate country. If the confederate flag represents slavery and racism, so should the current American flag. George Washington owned slaves, Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, even Ulysses S. Grant who was a general in the Union army owned a slave, and his wife owned several.
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Old Jan 28, 2007, 11:32 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: The Confederate Flag: Racist or A Sign of southern Heritage?

I think this really depends on people and how they percieve the flag. Some think it's racist (I don't) and some just think of it as a flag.
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Old Jan 28, 2007, 11:44 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: The Confederate Flag: Racist or A Sign of southern Heritage?

confederate flag racist i dont think its not racist its just a flage to me but it all depends on who u ask
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Old Jan 29, 2007, 10:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: The Confederate Flag: Racist or A Sign of southern Heritage?

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Originally Posted by Ky-lyrra View Post
If that was the case then why do they even make them. If people think that they are used for racism? My whole neighborhood has them up but yet we are not a racist neighborhood. We are just showing our southern herritage. I can see where you are coming from with the swastika symbol and that's one part of my herritage I will not be proud of. I see that both of them have been used for bad but that does not mean that they are used that way now or atleast the flag isn't.


A flag is not that bad now when a kid walks into school wearing a KKK suit then your have a problem.
hmph! Isn't haterd a beautiful thing hehehe! It almost makes me want to cry.
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Old Jan 29, 2007, 10:45 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: The Confederate Flag: Racist or A Sign of southern Heritage?

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Originally Posted by Miroku4444 View Post
I was watching my local news and they had a story where a kid was suspended for wearing a hat with the Southern Cross(Confederate flag) Symbol on it. So it gave me an idea for a good topic to post here.


Do you think the Confederate flag is a symbol of southern heritage or symbol of Racism? Should this kid have got suspended?

I think the school was just covering its butt, in case some parent would call up and bit** at the school and threaten to sue em. The kid should have been told just to not wear the hat, not be suspended.

To me its just a symbol of southern heritage not some racist tool. Those jerks just tarnished a once sacred symbol.

To help the Ppl that don't live in the US, see here:

http://www.geocities.com/gngerald/Confederacy.html
Yea your right the teachers had no right to suspend him. they should just have warned him about wearing the hat or sent a letter home. That would be a lot more reasonable. Actually depending on the school the conciqueces would be worse. For example my school if you wore that, you would be like kicked out of the school. its just not right for them to do so but whats done is done
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Old Jan 29, 2007, 11:00 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: The Confederate Flag: Racist or A Sign of southern Heritage?

Some flags and symbols have sadly been used throughout history as symbols of racism or other political ideas.
Remember that the swastika has a very long history and was only recently defiled through Nazi ideals.

I think that the Confederate Flag was invented specifically for the Confederates.
It's more like a symbol for rebellion than it is a symbol for racism.
However, popular culture and some groups feature it prominently as racist symbols. It's sad but unavoidable that people could take offense when seeing them. Just like all the fascist symbolism in WWII. (skull and bones, the two sig runes of the SS, the swastika, ...)
I'm afraid that most of those symbols will be forever tainted. Certainly in countries where they were abused.

Now there are multiple ways to deal with this, you either try to forget or you make the symbolism illegal. E.g. Almost all Nazi symbolism is forbidden in Germany today.
I honestly don't know which is best.
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Old Jan 29, 2007, 11:09 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: The Confederate Flag: Racist or A Sign of southern Heritage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassun View Post
Some flags and symbols have sadly been used throughout history as symbols of racism or other political ideas.
Remember that the swastika has a very long history and was only recently defiled through Nazi ideals.

I think that the Confederate Flag was invented specifically for the Confederates.
It's more like a symbol for rebellion than it is a symbol for racism.
However, popular culture and some groups feature it prominently as racist symbols. It's sad but unavoidable that people could take offense when seeing them. Just like all the fascist symbolism in WWII. (skull and bones, the two sig runes of the SS, the swastika, ...)
I'm afraid that most of those symbols will be forever tainted. Certainly in countries where they were abused.

Now there are multiple ways to deal with this, you either try to forget or you make the symbolism illegal. E.g. Almost all Nazi symbolism is forbidden in Germany today.
I honestly don't know which is best.

banning this isn't gonna make anything better. people always find a way to do this. especially teens. i know a lot of guys who go and spraypaint the nazi sign on the walls of random houses and buildings and no body does anything. Just gasp, leave it there and clean it up later..Its not the response taht peole want but thats just how it goes
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Old Jan 29, 2007, 11:39 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: The Confederate Flag: Racist or A Sign of southern Heritage?

its both, pretty much its why they fought for the whole racist and slave trade, it was based on a movie about it and that's why the confederate flag is both
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Old Jan 29, 2007, 11:46 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: The Confederate Flag: Racist or A Sign of southern Heritage?

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Originally Posted by hellknight View Post
its both, pretty much its why they fought for the whole racist and slave trade, it was based on a movie about it and that's why the confederate flag is both
still there will be people who still mock the racist and slave trade thing. and no one is stopping anyone. just a while ago on teh news some kid went to a jewish school and spraypainted the nazi sign on it. devistation cam a long but like poepl who actually mock it should be punished not some boy who had no idea what was wrong
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Old Jan 29, 2007, 12:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: The Confederate Flag: Racist or A Sign of southern Heritage?

Hmph! I really don't know as much and probelly don't care much about racism but heres my oppiniones on the subject.
I think people do things like say racist remarks or jokes, spray paint nazi signes on jewish schools cuz I think they are curious about the other peoples reactions. They want attention or they flat out don't care whos to say thats the if thats the case.
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Last edited by Naruku; Jan 29, 2007 at 12:58 PM. Reason: Trying to change the font color.
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