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Thread: Creation

  1. #97
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: Creation

    Appendix:

    I was recently doing some research and came across a little fact that I thought people might find interesting.

    The word "Yom" used in Genesis during the creation and translated as "Day" does not just mean day. It can also be translated as "Time" and "Period" depending on how it is used. Evidently Yom merely means a period of time in which a labor is done. It is usually applied to Day because ones labors are recorded in the Day (morning to night) that they are done. Yom can also mean however a labor in which took months, years, etc until it is finished. “I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work” (John 9:4). What is more the way that Yom is written in Genesis is missing the necessary prefixes that would specify it to be 24 hour periods or daylight that are found in the remainder of the Bible when used to specify a day and time.

    In essence if you go back to the original Hebrew the correct translation would be "period one" (Yom ehad), or the period in which the labors were completed, and not "the first day". In fact it specifically does not even say "First" since the word for one and first (harison) are completely different.

    If you want a really in depth article on this specific use in Genesis you can find it here.

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  2. #98
    Poultry Projectile Cannon Scourge is making a name for themselves Scourge is making a name for themselves Scourge's Avatar
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    Re: Creation

    Now that makes sense Arrianna. Best information I have heard so far for the creationist side or at least a better understanding of what they were talking about at least. I had no clue about that, and I am sure most other people who believe in creationism didn’t know about that either. Once again the fact of misinterpretation rears its head yet again. The fact that "yom" is a multi purpose word that belongs to the definitions of time of work and period. But as you said it was never given the exact length of time in the written work of genesis so to say the length of time or period of work was not written specifically to a 24 hour time period and there for the "yom" or work period given could be much much much longer. But sense it is not given to the exact time and date, wouldn’t looking at carbon dating and other forms of chemical, geological, and radioactive types of time measurement be a good way of looking at god's proverbial time card? I believe that god created the super element as I have mentioned earlier and set this object into motion. Something just hit me. I could be saying this wrong so please correct me on this. It is said that got created Earth and the Heavens in 7 days or a yom version of this work time. Now what if the phrase Earth and Heavens was referring to the universe its self. Not so much of what the universe we know to day but that super element that would become the universe and set that into motion. We could be very well be measuring his creations work which is the universe and not so much his hand but at the same time is his hand while creating evolution and free will but at the same time some how guiding it... My head is starting to hurt because it’s a contradiction and a big one at that but some times you need a contradiction in order for something to work and if god can do anything then he sure as hell can do this. The plot thickens.

  3. #99
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    Re: Creation

    ok people are getting stuck up on the whole genesis thinger still...
    ok so here it is. The yom thing is right it was a mistranslation by scribes and any selfrespecting relegios scholar (apparently not most clergy men) would be able to tell you that. I guess they don't because that'd be admitting that some of their higher ups and forerunners made a mistake.

    To make it a little clear to you picture it this way because you keep asking why didn't god give moses a specific time?
    Pretend you're this all knowing being. You created the earth for all of your children whom you love. One of your children who knows virtually nothing compared to your magnitude of knowledge asks you to explain how things happened. You are going to simplify things ALOT. I mean maybe god did do the whole evolution thing but how the hell would he have explained that to moses. when moses in reality had no understanding of even basic biology. He wouldn't know about cells or dna similarly we probably have a few misconceptions ourselves about how things played out but the bible as far as it is translated correctly is probably the easiest thing to understand as far as the whole thing goes. And if there is a god then it's definitely all that he feels we need to know to help us develop our healthy curiousities into a wealth of our own understanding. I mean sure he could just say everything as it is, but look how that's turned out so far. People refuse to believe the few things he has stated as laws to a better way so why would he have us deny our own existence?

    ... and join my rebellion against time.

  4. #100
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Scourge View Post
    Something just hit me. I could be saying this wrong so please correct me on this. It is said that got created Earth and the Heavens in 7 days or a yom version of this work time. Now what if the phrase Earth and Heavens was referring to the universe its self. Not so much of what the universe we know to day but that super element that would become the universe and set that into motion. We could be very well be measuring his creations work which is the universe and not so much his hand but at the same time is his hand while creating evolution and free will but at the same time some how guiding it... My head is starting to hurt because it’s a contradiction and a big one at that but some times you need a contradiction in order for something to work and if god can do anything then he sure as hell can do this. The plot thickens.
    Well.... maybe it will help if you read an accurate translation of the original Hebrew?

    "1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
    HEB shaped, fashioned, created; always divine activity, organized, formed. ...and the Biblical definition of "heaven" is what we now call the universe.

    So if you read it that way it says that in the beginning God organized the universe and the earth (our own planet). So the first verse does indicate the creation of the universe as well but then in verse two:

    "2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

    It clearly becomes specific to the creation of this planet. It is also specific that there was nothing there but water. No sun, ergo no plants or animals, just a rock with water trapped in it. Verses three-five deals with the creation of the sun and thus ends the first "period".

    Does that help?

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  5. #101
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    Re: Creation

    Yup, I had a feeling I had that wrong and that is why I asked. I hope I didnt offened any one with my incorrect inturpritation. Thanks for that clarification Arrianna. In any case you get my idea and belifeas as to how it came about.

  6. #102
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    Re: Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by tsurara View Post
    The outpouring of hate-mail I recieved overnight is truly touching, and telling of some members' devotion to "Christ-like" thinking.

    To Answer It All Here:

    1) For some reason, some gays are masochistic enough to be Christian:
    CHRISTIANGAYS.COM: Gay & Lesbian Christian Fellowship
    2) I am female
    3) I was called an idiot, I can't recall having called anyone else one
    4) I did not ban the user in question, I issued one 35 point infraction for "insulting a member" (for calling me an idiot without provocation)
    5) Muslims and Jews believe in the very same account of creation as Christians... I see no reason to qualify which religion I'm speaking about when saying that the story doesn't strike me as likely or literally true. The laws of Leviticus, the only other portion of the Bible I referenced by name are also applied in Islam and Judaism (though in Islam they are attributed to someone else). I never said that I was speaking to or of Christians -- I was discussing the topic at hand: Biblical Creation.
    6) After being told that I was an idiot for bringing up Biblical Law because the Covenant with Christ has erased it completely, I was then sent an e-mail informing me that homosexuality is a sin and that I will go to hell for it. I find this to be an ironic confirmation that Christians do, indeed, often "pick and choose" which portions of the Bible to apply to themselves and to others as they find them convenient.

    In closing, a quote from Ghandi... a man the literal Bible would also put in hell:

    " I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ. "
    I've been reading up on your posts and the replies to them. Not only was your opening sloppy, your arguments were all over the place, you were attacking people instead of points, and you didn't reach any closure at all... Was that your intention all this time? Is this your idea of a "debate"?

    You know, tsurara, something tells me that rather than really arguing, what you've been doing all this time was trying to provoke a flame war while keeping within the rules, throwing opinions here and there without actually proving (or disproving) anything at all. Pushing other people's buttons for the lulz, I suppose? If that's the case, then you're not being serious about this. So why should we take you and what you've said so far seriously?
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

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