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Thread: Creationism or Evolutionism...????

  1. #33
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    Re: Creationism or Evolutionism...????

    You can believe in whatever you want. The bible isn't 100% fact, it's not like he/she wrote it. Also about adam and eve starting everything, didn't they live to be over a thousand, so I don't see why they didn't have enough time to create a big family in the mean time. Unless I'm wrong?????

  2. #34
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    Re: Creationism or Evolutionism...????

    Quote Originally Posted by lebasiara View Post
    Actually I think you cannot believe in God and not to believe on His word. That's just no possible, on my opinion
    About the teachings of Jesus, yes He teaches us that, but that is not the limit of His teachings. Furthermore, because He teaches it does not mean the human being is going to listen. We are very hard headed you know? We don't listen... we should though... so this world 'll be a better place to live in
    His word according to who? Mormons, Catholics any other religions. They all interpret the bible differently. So whos right and who wrong. You cant tell me they are all right because that wouldnt be "his word". Gnostics believed they did not need a priest or the bible to know what god wanted because they could speak to him themselves, Agnostics believe that there might be a god and that as long as they lead good lives they will be judged fairly if they are judged at all. Of course you can have faith that there is a supreme being without following a book that was written by man.

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    Cool Re: Creationism or Evolutionism...????

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressMorgan View Post
    His word according to who? Mormons, Catholics any other religions. They all interpret the bible differently. So whos right and who wrong. You cant tell me they are all right because that wouldnt be "his word". Gnostics believed they did not need a priest or the bible to know what god wanted because they could speak to him themselves, Agnostics believe that there might be a god and that as long as they lead good lives they will be judged fairly if they are judged at all. Of course you can have faith that there is a supreme being without following a book that was written by man.
    Mormons... I don't get along with them.... they have a diiiiifferent interpretation of God's word.
    It is God's word according to Himself. HE says it throughout the bible.... You'll have to read it more... The bible itself is open to interpretations, some interpret it for their own benefits... we're humans, sin is in us...
    Therefore, that's why a thingy called FAITH has to be involved when we are reading His word. Dare God, I dare you to dare Him. He will not let you down, I promise. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you -He is not going to appear in ur room telling you "Here I am, I am God" He could and if He wants He will, but most likely He wont.... I think... and I dare you to "explore" His word.
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    Re: Creationism or Evolutionism...????

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressMorgan View Post
    Im sorry but what does Atheism have to do with evolution.
    Only that many atheists have made it their god. After all there has to be an explanation for those things and if they are not going to accept a religious answer they need one of their own.

    That is why evolution received the support it did initially. At the time it was proposed the church (be it Anglican or Catholic etc.) had a strangle hold on what was and was not acceptable scientific research and answers. Those who supported evolution were desperate to break that hold and saw evolution as the crowbar with which to shatter the lock. They attempted, quite successfully, to move religious answers about the world into a realm of fantasy in popular perception leaving them, of course, as the only true source of answers. Pity that in doing so they removed thousands of years of knowledge and history with it. Knowledge that we only now (200 years later) are beginning to uncover.

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressMorgan View Post
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  5. #37
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    Re: Creationism or Evolutionism...????

    I firmly do not believe in the popular understanding of evolution. I find it without basis and severely flawed. It saddens me to hear people claim it has been proven when not only hasn't it but enough things have been discovered to cast serious doubt on any possible validity to beneficial genetic mutation. A genetic scientist once said that the only reason it hasn't been discarded as a theory is because the only thing they have to replace it with is creationism. I guess believing that some aliens must have "seeded" the world is considered nutters.
    So you can believe in Creationism with far far less proof its true.Creationism is also without basis and even more flawed. If you don't believe in evolution explain how different types of dinosaurs popped up as they were on the earth(And dont tell me god made them just appear in a cloud of white smoke). Or other different animal or fish species that poped up. They evolved.

    I firmly do not believe in the popular understanding of evolution. I find it without basis and severely flawed. It saddens me to hear people claim it has been proven when not only hasn't it but enough things have been discovered to cast serious doubt on any possible validity to beneficial genetic mutation. A genetic scientist once said that the only reason it hasn't been discarded as a theory is because the only thing they have to replace it with is creationism. I guess believing that some aliens must have "seeded" the world is considered nutters.
    Yes you will always find nay sayers on any theory. The different new species that appeared on earth had to come form somewhere. How hard is it to believe evolution caused this, when we see examples of evolution everyday.

  6. #38
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    Re: Creationism or Evolutionism...????

    Okay...
    Every Holy book from EVERY religion on this terra has been changed and meesed by humans over the years. no offense, but if Bible was to be the only guide and history book, then how come its not the same as what Qu'ran says? [sp?] And why are there so many branches of Christianity? As far as I've learnt that there was only one type of Christianity... and after time they started to divide and some branches survived and some didn't. Not two holy books are the same even though their message is the same... Not everything in them is true. People believe it's against the morals to marry your own brother/sister or cousin and so on... if we were to be creted from Adam and Eve their children must've had children with their brothers and sisters... no way a creation as complex as Human can pop out of no where so easily. Life takes a long time to develope, as proven with or without Science. Life cannot pop out of nowhere. By the way I'm not a Christian so yeah ^^;

    Now about life.
    I do believe something might have created this Universe, let it be God or the Big Bang. It's impossible, for me anyway, that in a space with no time, no light, no matter, no gas, no vaccuum and in a vast ocean of pure nothingness a ball the size of a soccer ball with its temperature being billions and trillions degrees create out of oblivion and with matter creating such complex proccesses in which the first stars were born. And with that a new begining started in which time existed. And after billions of years when the processes continued, let it by luck or naturally, Earth was taking shape. A sphere of molten lava and poisonous gasses with the perfect distance from the Sun. And after a long long time life started to take it's shape.
    Simple single celled creatures.

    Okay let's say God creted Earth and life which is understandable by me ^_^ it's only natural if nature was created, as well. Then the organisms started evolving into more complex beings.
    Dinosaurs were the first giants to roam this planet. And according to life and nature only the strongest survives. Anyways they ended up being dead anyway.
    The same procceses continued and then humans were born. Even though they had intelligence they still did not know about the Supreme power. Look, God had to teach its best creation something right? ^^ Morals can't be made from monkeys, our ancestors. Somebody or something had to teach them. I do believe there is God and since he/she created life evoloution had to take place one day or another.

  7. #39
    Otaku Chubz may be famous one day Chubz may be famous one day Chubz's Avatar
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    Re: Creationism or Evolutionism...????

    I'm a bit half and half on the subject.

    I'll say upfront that I don't believe in the Adam and Eve story/theory. There is almost no chance that a species with only 2 beings could possibly survive on this earth, with other animals. Eventually, someone is going to be dinner for a wolf or a bear. I mean, there's a few thousand Panda's left in the wild, and we're worried about these suckers going extinct....how could two beings possibly survive? Two animals of a single species would certainly face far more risks in the wild. Also, while marriage between family members have occured over Earth's history (Cleopatra was married to her younger brother), it is a limited example of the overall inter-relations of humanity. The majority has married outside of the family (inter-family marriage was mostly practiced by royalty, to keep bloodlines, etc). But once again, two beings who have kids who continually keep inter-marrying have an incredibly huge chance of dying out, because the genetic makeup stays relatively the same, so any sort of virus or disease would have just wiped out the species (and if we're talking Old Testament, plagues and viruses show up plenty). You would also have extreme deformities start to appear quite rapidly, if we came from two people. (I'll bring this up later, so don't shoot me down for this yet)

    That being said, the big-bang theory is just as flawed. You cannot scientifically get something from nothing. The law of relativity states that energy cannot be created, nor destroyed. So if it was a big-bang that caused the universe, what caused the big bang? You can't just have a huge super-nova-universe-creating explosion....something has to be in place to allow that to happen. Something had to create it....

    As, for evolution......life on planets is almost a mathematical impossibility according to science. So when you calcute the near impossibility of life being created, and then add all the other mathematical improbabilities of a species surviving ON a planet (without being killed by the climate, other animals, being hit by meteors, etc), it's really surprising that humanity has been able to evolve into what we are now, apparently coming from single cell organisms and monkeys. I was reading a book awhile ago that talked about the mathematical calculation used to determine the possibility of sentient life on other planets, and apparently it's something like only 10,000 planets could potentially have sentient life once all factors have been calculated (the chances of the species dying...which is a good chance).

    It would also mean that ALL life on Earth should technically be genetically related, because the chance of having ONE single cell form is slim, so how is it that you'd have all different sorts of single cells form at the same time (even if the span is several million years, which would be a short time in Earth's history) that would eventually manage to live and create the different plants and animals we have now?

    I believe in ADAPTING, which though similiar to evolution, is different. An animal can adapt to it's environment enabling it to survive.....but an animal EVOLVING into something almost completely different to fit a condition? The species should die out before that if the conditions require so much change. I think it's something like whales and horses are related through the evolution theory.....but how would that freakin happen in even a couple million years? Did their ancestor just decide to stand in knee-deep water and see what happens? Even though this would have happened over milllllllllions of years, it is still a radical change in a short period of time, and when you add to that the chances of a species dying off, everything is an impossibility.

    The dinosaurs, over a course of 65 million years, have become birds? The evolution theory places just as much importance on ONE single animal, as does the Adam and Eve place it on two. The evolving of a species would come from ONE animal first...that the animal would somehow overtake all those around it and thus have it become the survivor of the species is just as implausible as adam and eve. The change would have to be RADICAL to make a difference to the species. Let's say using the dinosaur idea, that a lizard gets a couple feathers on him, making him more arrow-dynamic than others, and gives him an extra second in run time. He still has about the same probability of simply being killed off by something else.....but science says that this little sucker somehow outmaneuvers everything, manages to mate with another dinosaur (whose genetic engineering ACCEPTS the mutation as being correct, thus passing it on to the baby) and suddenly give a couple million years, one of the species has the feathers grow a bit larger, and it continues until we get birds?

    Evolution requires genetic mutation, (horse+whale=family?....dinosaur+time=bird?)...Tha t a genetic mutation coming from one single being and not hindering or killing him off is a bit hard to chew, but plausible......but an ever changing genetic mutation for adaption to an environment? Sorry, but I don't really buy it. Mathematically speaking, we were lucky to have one single cell formed on this Earth. The genetic mutations/deformities that would appear from Adam and Eve's children inter-marrying could technically be just as beneficial as the genetic mutations of evolution.

    The only reason why I lean towards evolution a bit more, is because it relies on a greater amount of animals at one time (whereas adam and eve are just two of one species), making the chances of survival more probable. But both theories still have their extreme flaws....

    So to finish this up....I will say that I do believe in a God.....I am skeptical of the Bible as I believe it to be a book of metaphors, not absolute truths, but I am also skeptical of science because it affirms that it is 100% right, when in fact science is deeply flawed due to it constantly changing, so what it tells me now will probably not be the same as what it says 50 or 100 years later. It requires just as much faith as religion to believe in.

    I think God did something....I don't know what...I don't think it was Adam and Eve....but he did something, and we're here. I guess I'm kind of a Deist, in that I think God created us....but left us to our own devices on Earth.
    Last edited by Chubz; Mar 01, 2007 at 12:18 AM.

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  8. #40
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    Re: Creationism or Evolutionism...????

    W00t! Well said Chubz ^_^ Just a bit similar to mine though..

    Anyways...
    How many times has the dates in the Bible been changed for the big meteor to fall down on Earth and kill us all? Quite a few times right?

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