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Thread: Divine lineage?

  1. #25
    Fallen Angel PhoenixSara may be famous one day PhoenixSara's Avatar
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    Re: Divine lineage?

    Well there may be some truth to the fact taht Christ lived a healthy life while he was around and the church (Catholic) only came out the celibacy rule for priests during the late 1800's.

    There are parts of the bible that are not published according to a Jesuit professor back in college and the matter of the dead sea scrolls not being published and used for theology. What these are we may never know till the Catholic church really answers any of these allegations.
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    Re: Divine lineage?

    Whoa Peach_follows, calm down there. It is obvious you only skimmed the article since you obviously missed the pertinent facts. Put simply the writings that are older do not say what people have claimed them too and the ones that do have been proven to be forgeries. Forgeries and "mistranslations" that have been used as fact for books and articles that are then used to substantiate new claims. The link I gave you was just a brief summery of the research that has already been done on the subject that shows the true status of the "legends". Legends that turn out to have been manufactured in the last century.

    As for my assumptions they were perfectly legit after you asked "How did these, items.... (along with a corpse with a middle eastern profile) end up in France?" Answer, they could have easily ended up there thanks to the trade in the Roman Empire and need no extraordinary explaination. You also said you knew nothing of anything being debunked. It isn't a reflection of your intelligence only your knowledge. Since I've seen and read impartial documentaries on the subject that have thoroughly debunked them it is reasonable to assume that you didn't know about them.

    So yes, this is a discussion thread but if you have something new and more to add that would make the claims somehow more legit then how about giving some links to this new information that can then be veiwed and resourced for validity by everyone?


    @PhoenixSara: I have a book that contains among other things a translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The reason they are not used for theology is because they were one of several minor sects that broke off from Judaism and wrote their own scriptures. It happened frequently both before and after Christs time (including among the early Christian church) and since their beliefs were developed separately they have nothing to do with the descent of current theology; hence they are not considered theological text.

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  3. #27
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    Re: Divine lineage?

    I'd like to add that the Priory of Sion does exist in real life, but as a fraudulent organization. Google, anyone?

    And Sara: the Church has already taken these claims to task years ago. Check out The Da Vinci Hoax for a scholarly, historical refutation.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

  4. #28
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    Re: Divine lineage?

    Thanks i really don't know all the details and don't uhmm claim to know everything but there are a lot of texts and chapters in the bible that the church has not published....whether or not the dead sea scrolls or the da vinci code is a part of the church history or not ..................

    we are talking about some other thing and well isn't this the main purpose of a debate is to have a healthy discussion?
    Last edited by PhoenixSara; Oct 13, 2008 at 02:41 PM. Reason: edit post
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    Re: Divine lineage?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixSara View Post
    Thanks i really don't know all the details and don't uhmm claim to know everything but there are a lot of texts and chapters in the bible that the church has not published....
    Well, given that most people tend to forget history over time (not to mention that revisionists are taking advantage of this while altering published history to suit their respective agendas), I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the contents of the MAD I have on my desk would be regarded by historians a millennium from now as gospel truth.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

  6. #30
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    Re: Divine lineage?

    My questioning as to how the items got to France wasn't really me indicating I needed an answer, clearly I follwed the question saying it "WAS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT". Not that I didn't know that there were many possibilities as to how it occured. It was.... quite obviously... a rhetorical question...

    Furthemore I read the article... The problem with the article is that there isn't proof of anything being a forgery... There is quotes from a professor who has painstakingly done some investigating. His investigations which come to the conclusion that certain things are false and inaccurate. This conclusion is still based on alot of speculation. And while it addresses parchments, and secret orginizations. It doesn't really address the bloodline in and of itself. It only makes out previous believers of the bloodline to be liars or lunatics.

    This documetary (The Bloodline) serves as a newer investigation than what was done by Bill Putnam and John Edwin Wood. And this NEW investigation comes complete with NEW potential evidence. This evidence has NOT been debunked.

    I have read your artical... word for word. I even read more...

    ren v1 .... I've read the book featured on this site.
    Priory of Sion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I have read just about every claim that supposedly debunks the theory of Christs Bloodline. Can you, in all honesty, say thay you have given an equal amount of observation to the information -I- have placed before you? Or is it that you just believe you know the truth, and would rather continue spewing results of old investigations as your defense. Why is it that you can not accept that there is NEW information that hasn't yet been debunked ?????

    Keep in mind... I am aware that there is no proof of a bloodline... but there is no real proof that there isn't one.

    @ psychical... that information predates the newer information provided by "The Bloodline". The priory of sion is only believed to be a false orginization... not proven. However there is strong evidence suddgesting Plantard falsified alot of information. That still doesnt mean that the core of what he was trying to reveal was all BS. As I stated in a previous post... just because someone goes through great lengths of deception in attempt to reveal the truth. It doesn't mean the thruth they are trying to reveal is a lie... It just means they resorted fraud in order to try and convince the masses. Ministers make false claims in Gods name all the time... That doen't mean that God is fraudulent.... The same goes for the theory of Christs bloodline.

    Honestly, archeologists and scholars, historians... they are all still debating this... And you really believe you can just "google" some proof?!?!?
    Last edited by Peach_follows; Oct 13, 2008 at 04:25 PM.
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    Re: Divine lineage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peach_follows View Post
    @ psychical... that information predates the newer information provided by "The Bloodline". The priory of sion is only believed to be a false orginization... not proven. However there is strong evidence suddgesting Plantard falsified alot of information. That still doesnt mean that the core of what he was trying to reveal was all BS. As I stated in a previous post... just because someone goes through great lengths of deception in attempt to reveal the truth. It doesn't mean the thruth they are trying to reveal is a lie... It just means they resorted fraud in order to try and convince the masses. Ministers make false claims in Gods name all the time... That doen't mean that God is fraudulent.... The same goes for the theory of Christs bloodline.

    Honestly, archeologists and scholars, historians... they are all still debating this... And you really believe you can just "google" some proof?!?!?
    I am making the assumption that you believe in, if not all, then at least some of the claims stated by your sources. A person normally wouldn't put that much effort into arguing for something he himself would dismiss as crock. Do correct me if I'm wrong, though.

    Why must one resort to trickery, when all one must do to reveal the truth is to present irrefutable evidence to bolster his claims? If the claim is indeed true, then there must be even at least a shred of irrefutable evidence lying around, or at least something that would lead honest Christians to begin to doubt. To resort to deception, in this respect, is akin to the shepherd boy crying "Wolf!" just to show the townsfolk what a good job he's doing tending his sheep. Effective, indeed. And self-defeating, too.

    Google's a good start when it comes to doing amateur detective work; I can attest to its effectiveness, as it saved me from a potential swindle once. It takes a sound mind to separate the wheat from the chaff, though.

    I'd like to make a modest proposal: let's examine whether it is at least likely that Christ could have begotten offspring. Start from where it all started. How does that sound?
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

  8. #32
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    Re: Divine lineage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peach_follows View Post
    I have read just about every claim that supposedly debunks the theory of Christs Bloodline. Can you, in all honesty, say thay you have given an equal amount of observation to the information -I- have placed before you?
    I would be happy to if you could actually give some. Every site I had looked up on the subject says that these claims are based on the same sources that were already addressed in the documentaries and research I have already studied, studies highlighted by the article I presented. If you have some new evidence then show it.

    To quote one of the links you gave:
    "The Priory of Sion myth has been exhaustively debunked by journalists and scholars as one of the great hoaxes of the 20th century."
    -The Secret of the Priory of Sion, '60 Minutes', 30 April 2006, presented by Ed Bradley, produced by Jeanne Langley, CBS News

    Here is another wiki source for you though:
    Jesus bloodline
    The Jesus bloodline hypothesis from the book The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail is not contained in any of the "Priory of Sion documents" and was dismissed as fiction by Pierre Plantard in 1982 on a French radio interview, as well as by Philippe de Cherisey in a magazine article.[32][33] Plantard only claimed that the Merovingians were descended from the Tribe of Benjamin,[34] which contradicts the hypothesis of a Jesus bloodline as the missing link between the Merovingian line and the Davidic line from the Tribe of Judah. The notion of a direct bloodline from Jesus and Mary Magdalene, and its supposed relationship to the Merovingians (as well as their alleged modern descendants: House of Habsburg, Grand Ducal Family of Luxembourg, Clan Sinclair, House of Stuart, House of Cavendish, and other noble families), is strongly dismissed as pseudohistorical by a qualified majority of Christian and secular historians such as Darrell Bock and Bart Ehrman,[35][36] as have journalists and investigators such as Jean-Luc Chaumeil, who has an extensive archive on this subject matter.


    But since you are reluctant to give a specific resource for this "new" information I managed to find one for you:
    CADRE Comments: Bloodline: Fact or Fiction?

    It thoroughly goes through and shows the flimsiness of the new "evidence" from coins that can be purchased anywhere these days to discrepancies in videos taken, to outright lies about knowledge of the tombs location and an investigation by proper authorities, to more forged papers written in an incorrect hand and ink for the time period claimed.

    Here is a few more articles discussing the evidence:
    Bloodline: Serious Documentary or Hollywood Hoax? Gordon Franz
    Holy Blood, Holy Vodka Bottle | Wittenburg Door

    In fact I could not find a single positive review written by anyone with credentials.


    Congratulations you've bought into another hoax.

    What is he selling? A movie, photo's of "artifacts", Priory "document" copies (so much for a secret society), and a book which has yet to be released. Considering the business the Da Vinci Code did though he is likely to make a killing.

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