Does god exist?

OfeliasFire · May 27, 2007, 02:34 PM

I've had trouble with religion all my life. I've been through various religions, I don't care to count them. With christianity my problem has always been that I cannot put all of my faith into a book(the bible). As for now I am just a self discoverer so I would love it if I could get some opinions or suggestions to help me on the road to discovering the truth.

*HolderOfTheDarkChalice* · May 27, 2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Arguments for God's Existence
Arguments for the existence of God come in many different forms; some draw on history, some on science, some on personal experience, and some on philosophy. The primary focus of this site is the philosophical arguments—the ontological argument, the first cause argument, the argument from design, and the moral argument.

Each of these arguments, if successful, supports a certain conception of God: the ontological argument, for instance, is an argument for the existence of a perfect being; the first cause argument is an argument for the existence of an eternal Creator; the argument from design is an argument for the existence of Creator with a special interest in humanity; the moral argument is an argument for a moral authority.

Each of the arguments, if successful, then, so supports a specific religion to the extent that its conception of God matches that supported by the argument.

The Ontological Argument
The first purported proof of the existence of God is the ontological argument. The ontological argument seeks to prove the existence of God from the laws of logic alone. It dates back to St Anselm, an eleventh century philosopher-theologian and archbishop of Canterbury, but was also used by the French philosopher René Descartes. It argues that once we mentally grasp the concept of God we can see that God’s non-existence is impossible. This argument, if it is successful, demonstrates the existence of a perfect being that could not possibly fail to exist.

The First Cause Argument
The second purported proof of the existence of God is the first cause argument, also called “the cosmological argument”. The first cause argument seeks to prove the existence of God from the fact that the universe exists. The universe came into existence at a point in the distant past. Nothing can come into existence, though, unless there is something to bring it into existence; nothing comes from nothing. There must therefore be some being outside of the universe that caused the universe to exist. This argument, if it is successful, demonstrates the existence of a Creator that transcends time, that has neither beginning nor end.

The Argument from Design
The third purported proof of the existence of God is the argument from design, also called “the teleological argument”. The argument from design seeks to prove the existence of God from the fact that the universe is ordered.

The universe could have been different from the way that it is in many ways. It could have had different laws of physics; it could have had a different arrangement of planets and stars; it could have begun with a more powerful or a weaker big bang.

The vast majority of these possible universes would not have allowed for the existence of life, so we are very fortunate indeed to have a universe that does. On an atheistic world-view, there is no way to explain this good fortune; the atheist must put this down to chance. On the view that God exists, though, we can explain why the universe is the way that it is; it is because God created the universe with beings like us in mind. This argument, if it is successful, strongly suggests the existence of a Creator that takes an interest in humanity.

The Moral Argument
The fourth purported proof of the existence of God is the moral argument. The moral argument seeks to prove the existence of God from the fact that there are moral laws.

Moral laws have the form of commands; they tell us what to do. Commands can’t exist without a commander though, so who is it that commands us to behave morally?

To answer this, we only need to look at the authoritative nature of morality. Commands are only as authoritative as is the one that commands them; a command of a ruler carries more authority than a command of a citizen. Moral commands, though, have ultimate authority; they are to be obeyed under all circumstances. Their authority transcends all human authority, and they must therefore have been commanded by a being whose authority transcends all human authority.

The existence of moral laws, the argument concludes, thus demonstrates the existence of a being that is greater than any of us and that rules over all creation.

Summary
Together, then, these arguments claim to prove the existence of a perfect, necessary, transcendent being that created the universe, has authority over it, and takes an interest in humanity. This, if it could be accomplished, would be more than enough to show that the Christian conception of God, and those conceptions of God related to it, are close to the truth.

It’s time to examine the arguments. The first is the ontological argument.

i think my self that god does exist because there are to many
questions that sceince , theoligists and the like cant really explain
and there are to many numerouse acount of things happening
for those under god protection to be exaplned away like the parting
of the red sea , i saw a documentry on it but that was stupid really .

here is a link for more info where i got that quote from

Existence of God

OfeliasFire · May 27, 2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolderOfTheDarkChalice

i think my self that god does exist because there are to many
questions that sceince , theoligists and the like cant really explain
and there are to many numerouse acount of things happening
for those under god protection to be exaplned away like the parting
of the red sea , i saw a documentry on it but that was stupid really .

here is a link for more info where i got that quote from

Existence of God

Personally I am not sure wether he exists, all I know is that I can't put all my faith into a book where people claim a man did all this stuff. I've tried and I just can't do it. So I guess I am lost.

totalchaosgirl1988 · May 27, 2007, 03:38 PM

well to be honest, I have no faith in any religion right now, I am just a spritualist. like OfeliasFire I cant follow a book or what other people say. personally the "bible"'s actual story has been changed soo many times with changing it from it original lanuage and its storys lasting so long until now...I would have to say alot of the book and its tales are streached. Sorry to say the least but this is just my opinon. There could be a god...but I reall do not think that there is. The stories are too far fetched and there is just no way that things could just happen. I do believe a lot in the chain of evolution. well I hope that my opinon helped, if not oh well. I didnt mean to say anything wrong this is just what I believe in. well later.

Totalchaos

fireandice · May 27, 2007, 03:58 PM

Personly I do belive in god but I have to admit that I haven't read the bible. It was writen down by humans so I belive that some of what is in there may not be completely true. But you must remember all stories that has with stood the test of time are based on some truth. So follow your heart and do what you feel is right and true to gods way and at least you'll be on a good path. That is if you can't chose a faith to follow. Hope that helps a little

zig93 · May 27, 2007, 03:58 PM

Ido belive in a god not the man god. I feel that man made the bible and everting that is in it is almost a lie when you say that you have to go to church to let god into your heart, right. You dont need a prest to let god into your herat. I feel if you are a good person and good things will happen to you. When it comes to god I want to be shore that it is the rite one. your sole is the only thing that you have, dont be so fast to give it up to something that says that it will bring to peace. For all that we know the church could led you to hell. I dont think that god would want you to be fake to yourself just because you like the same sex. Having you live a lie, just because your afarid of going to hell.

There is someting out there no doubt about it. I just dont think that its what everone thinks it is.

The Dave · May 27, 2007, 04:18 PM

I'm not sure as to whether there is or is not a god. For the longest part of my life I was a Christian but then I started to question things and I kept coming up with things that could not be explained by the bible or by the church in general. There are things that the bible can't answer and there are things that science can't answer, so I'm basically in the middle right now.

*Violent* · May 27, 2007, 04:42 PM

I have the same problem and for me I just don't think everything all fits together :/

Like how come God or Jesus haven't shown themselves in over 2 centuries? It doesn't make sense sometimes and I question that and my faith crumbles, I do wonder if God is real or not or if the world was just form scientifically and we go to an afterlife of spiritual roaming...

But no one can really agree on religion so no one can say whats real or not, its all up to you to decide.

I say there is a god but not that kind of god in the bible.

*HolderOfTheDarkChalice* · May 27, 2007, 04:52 PM

the reason somethings domt seem to make since is that they left somethings from the bible that they did fpr the simple fact that alot of it was just notes and remdies for herbal treatmeants and everydau thoughts .

they only put in the bibble the thing that would be spritual
infacr i have a bibble that has sevral chapters in that are prayers for
excorsims and myths about creatures that roamed the earth
yeah it is intresting but they took it oput probably because
that had nothing to do with god and man at all .

the bible i have is like 200 years old so i rarly touch it because its
pages are really fragile the last im looked through it a few pages
fell out and i figured its best to just leave it be.

!The White Wolf · May 27, 2007, 05:25 PM

It's really up to you. It's all up to you. Whether you choose to believe in God or not, is your decision. However, my input on this all is that God does exist. With this huge universe.. and us being here on this Earth will technology and everything we have.. there had to be a bigger being, a much more powerful one to have created it all, no? The Bible was written when Jesus was; and states all that he did, and all that God wants us to do. Yes, some of the things stated in The Bible are questionable, but it is just to guide us.

Again, whether or not you want to become a Christian and believe in God.. you have to find yourself first, and see where you stand. Do you want to spend the rest of your life not believing in anything more than just science and facts.. or do you choose to go beyond? To immortality, to eternal life?

Your call.

*Violent* · May 27, 2007, 05:59 PM

I just think that if you do something bad and never accept Christ that you go to Hell for an eternity, I think thats a bad thing... I mean we ourselves only have what... 60-100 years of life, I think life is rather short to find out the answers... compared to the people that lived in the period of Jesus who lived in the hundreds of years.

I think sure there is an afterlife but I just can't picture it being 1. Heaven or 2. Hell I think there something weird about that...

The bible is a book also and it could have been a story just to make people good..? You never know unless you actually die, which sucks... ;-;

I wish I knew the answers life would be so less troublesome...

View Poll Results: Does god exist?
Yes, definately.	61	61.00%
No, of course not.	13	13.00%
I don't know.	26	26.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

May 27, 2007, 02:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
OfeliasFire Diamond in the Rough Join Date: May 2007 Location: テネシー州 Posts: 332 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Credits: 2,525	Does god exist? I've had trouble with religion all my life. I've been through various religions, I don't care to count them. With christianity my problem has always been that I cannot put all of my faith into a book(the bible). As for now I am just a self discoverer so I would love it if I could get some opinions or suggestions to help me on the road to discovering the truth. __________________ Dear Dinah...
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May 27, 2007, 03:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
totalchaosgirl1988 Newbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: somewhere between heaven and hell Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Credits: 110	Re: Does god exist? well to be honest, I have no faith in any religion right now, I am just a spritualist. like OfeliasFire I cant follow a book or what other people say. personally the "bible"'s actual story has been changed soo many times with changing it from it original lanuage and its storys lasting so long until now...I would have to say alot of the book and its tales are streached. Sorry to say the least but this is just my opinon. There could be a god...but I reall do not think that there is. The stories are too far fetched and there is just no way that things could just happen. I do believe a lot in the chain of evolution. well I hope that my opinon helped, if not oh well. I didnt mean to say anything wrong this is just what I believe in. well later. Totalchaos __________________
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May 27, 2007, 03:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
fireandice ~always by your side~ Join Date: May 2007 Location: small little hick town Posts: 517 Thanks: 19 Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts Credits: 10,440	Re: Does god exist? Personly I do belive in god but I have to admit that I haven't read the bible. It was writen down by humans so I belive that some of what is in there may not be completely true. But you must remember all stories that has with stood the test of time are based on some truth. So follow your heart and do what you feel is right and true to gods way and at least you'll be on a good path. That is if you can't chose a faith to follow. Hope that helps a little
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May 27, 2007, 03:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
zig93 Newbie Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 56 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Credits: 30	Re: Does god exist? Ido belive in a god not the man god. I feel that man made the bible and everting that is in it is almost a lie when you say that you have to go to church to let god into your heart, right. You dont need a prest to let god into your herat. I feel if you are a good person and good things will happen to you. When it comes to god I want to be shore that it is the rite one. your sole is the only thing that you have, dont be so fast to give it up to something that says that it will bring to peace. For all that we know the church could led you to hell. I dont think that god would want you to be fake to yourself just because you like the same sex. Having you live a lie, just because your afarid of going to hell. There is someting out there no doubt about it. I just dont think that its what everone thinks it is. Last edited by zig93; May 28, 2007 at 05:28 AM.
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May 27, 2007, 04:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
The Dave Newbie Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Credits: 83	Re: Does god exist? I'm not sure as to whether there is or is not a god. For the longest part of my life I was a Christian but then I started to question things and I kept coming up with things that could not be explained by the bible or by the church in general. There are things that the bible can't answer and there are things that science can't answer, so I'm basically in the middle right now. __________________
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May 27, 2007, 04:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
Violent Girls are like M&M's yum Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NC Posts: 1,507 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Credits: 4,898	Re: Does god exist? I have the same problem and for me I just don't think everything all fits together :/ Like how come God or Jesus haven't shown themselves in over 2 centuries? It doesn't make sense sometimes and I question that and my faith crumbles, I do wonder if God is real or not or if the world was just form scientifically and we go to an afterlife of spiritual roaming... But no one can really agree on religion so no one can say whats real or not, its all up to you to decide. I say there is a god but not that kind of god in the bible. __________________ Obey the forum rules!
Status: Offline

May 27, 2007, 04:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
HolderOfTheDarkChalice Tournaments Won: 1 King Of Darkness Join Date: May 2006 Location: someplace where the only light is the moon above Posts: 2,797 Thanks: 21 Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts Credits: 3,320	Re: Does god exist? the reason somethings domt seem to make since is that they left somethings from the bible that they did fpr the simple fact that alot of it was just notes and remdies for herbal treatmeants and everydau thoughts . they only put in the bibble the thing that would be spritual infacr i have a bibble that has sevral chapters in that are prayers for excorsims and myths about creatures that roamed the earth yeah it is intresting but they took it oput probably because that had nothing to do with god and man at all . the bible i have is like 200 years old so i rarly touch it because its pages are really fragile the last im looked through it a few pages fell out and i figured its best to just leave it be. __________________ thanks mellow your sig is top notch http://www.animeonline.net/links/
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May 27, 2007, 05:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
!The White Wolf Why so serious? Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,580 Thanks: 9 Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts Credits: 10,073	Re: Does god exist? It's really up to you. It's all up to you. Whether you choose to believe in God or not, is your decision. However, my input on this all is that God does exist. With this huge universe.. and us being here on this Earth will technology and everything we have.. there had to be a bigger being, a much more powerful one to have created it all, no? The Bible was written when Jesus was; and states all that he did, and all that God wants us to do. Yes, some of the things stated in The Bible are questionable, but it is just to guide us. Again, whether or not you want to become a Christian and believe in God.. you have to find yourself first, and see where you stand. Do you want to spend the rest of your life not believing in anything more than just science and facts.. or do you choose to go beyond? To immortality, to eternal life? Your call.
Status: Offline

May 27, 2007, 05:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
Violent Girls are like M&M's yum Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NC Posts: 1,507 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Credits: 4,898	Re: Does god exist? I just think that if you do something bad and never accept Christ that you go to Hell for an eternity, I think thats a bad thing... I mean we ourselves only have what... 60-100 years of life, I think life is rather short to find out the answers... compared to the people that lived in the period of Jesus who lived in the hundreds of years. I think sure there is an afterlife but I just can't picture it being 1. Heaven or 2. Hell I think there something weird about that... The bible is a book also and it could have been a story just to make people good..? You never know unless you actually die, which sucks... ;-; I wish I knew the answers life would be so less troublesome... __________________ Obey the forum rules!
Status: Offline

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