Elegant univers PT.2

*HolderOfTheDarkChalice* · Sep 15, 2006, 08:10 AM

The puzzle is that the two greatest theories of modern physics-general relativity and quantum mechanics-give what seem to be conflicting explanations of gravity. These theories are well established in the scientific world, causing their irreconcilable differences to be even more plaguing. Albert Einstein’s general theory of relativity and quantum mechanical theory, which began with Einstein and was developed further by many others through the 1920s, have both been verified in countless experiments. Both are embodied by mathematical formulas that can be used to predict natural phenomena. “In fact,” says Jim Gates, “every experiment ever done to test relativity has given positive results. The theory correctly predicts what happens in the real world. And the same is true of quantum theory. They’re both firmly established. They work, and there’s no way to escape that fact.” General relativity and quantum mechanics are the finest achievements of human understanding of the fundamental nature of matter and energy. Their seemingly contradictory statements about gravity, however, show that something is lacking in our understanding of one of the most basic and observable forces of our everyday lives.

Quantum theory is a very successful framework for describing three of the four fundamental forces in the standard model . Quantum theory portrays forces as fields transmitted by particles called quanta. The strong force holds the atomic nucleus together. Carried out by gluons, the strong force binds protons in the nucleus and is the source of the sun’s energy and thermonuclear explosions. The weak force governs radioactive processes within the nucleus of the atom and is carried by W-bosons. The two forces that we are able to perceive in the everyday world are gravity and electromagnetism. Electromagnetism, carried by photons moving through space, binds electrons to atomic nuclei and thus is responsible for all chemical reactions. Electromagnetism also makes electrons jump from atom to atom in a wire, producing electricity. In recent decades, physicists have unified electromagnetism and the weak force into one electroweak theory, describing a process in the early universe through which one force could have broken down to yield these two forces. Physicists believe that all four forces are present day remnants of one original force that existed at the time of the Big Bang. As the universe expanded and cooled, this one force eventually changed into the other four forms that we recognize today.

Physicists have been less successful using quantum theory to describe the force of gravity. According to quantum theory, gravity must be like the other forces in that it must be carried by special force carrying particles, called gravitons, which move back and forth between particles of matter. The problem is that no one has ever found a graviton. However, based on the strength of the mathematical equations that predict them, scientists have faith that they exist.

The conflict is that general relativity also describes gravity, not as a force mitigated by sub-atomic particles, but as kind of an illusion created by the curvature of space. The basic idea is that mass curves space in an infinite number of directions, which causes the force of gravity. This phenomena reaches in all directions from anything that has mass and causes things with less mass to be attracted to things of greater mass, as if they were rolling across rubber sheets curved by the more massive objects. Though this theory is hard to visualize, the mathematics of relativity theory passes every test in the real world that says that this must be what gravity is.

Physicists say these short strings vibrate at different frequencies, much like a guitar string, producing various tones. The differing vibrations of these sub-atomic strings show up in scientific instruments as protons, neutrons, photons, and other fundamental particles. For example, a proton can be thought of as three vibrating strings, one for each quark. The different combinations of the vibrations of the strings produce the different properties of the proton, such as charge, mass, and spin. Furthermore, if you give each string a characteristic way to vibrate and calculate the properties of those vibrations with the same formulas developed for describing the vibrations of strings in musical instruments, string theory will give you good mathematical descriptions of all known fundamental particles of matter and energy. Even better, string theory effectively includes gravitons as one of the fundamental particles. Researches studying string theory have found a particle similar to the graviton, arising from the vibrations of the strings. The famous mathematical inconsistency that for decades made it impossible to incorporate quantum gravity with the other fundamental forces of the standard model is absent in string theory. It is almost as if gravity needs strings in order to exist.

Strings can be open or closed, sweeping out a worldsheet through space-time. A closed string has periodic boundary conditions while an open string has an endpoint free to move about. Strings interact by splitting and joining. The vibrational modes of strings can be characterized by various quantum numbers, such as mass, spin, etc. This means that each mode carries a set of quantum numbers that correspond to a distinct type of particle, as described above. Thus, all fundamental particles can be described by one object, a string.

The hardest pill to swallow concerning string theory is that it makes mathematical sense only if the universe has 26 dimensions. When an early version of string theory emerged in the 1970s, it was realized that one could only believe the equations if the strings were vibrating in a space of 26 dimensions. This is 22 more than the four space-time dimensions that we are in contact with in our everyday existence. Mathematically, it is trivial to add dimensions, but it is only plausible to claim 26 dimensions if it is asserted that 22 of them are hidden from our perception. This is where the idea of compactification plays a major role.

In 1984, four Princeton University physicists found a way to make string theory work in a 10-dimensional world, having compactified the other 16 dimensions, curling them up so that they no longer played a role in the everyday world. Later, it was discovered that of all the possible ways to compactify a string into 10-dimensions, only five were mathematically sturdy. Physicists continued to toil with compactification until in the mid 1990s they realized that the five ways to hide the extra dimensions were closely related. The five 10-dimensional string theories were found to be just different views of a single underlying 11-dimensional theory, called M theory. All of the five theories could be connected by “dualities,” mathematical relationships describing the same physics.

As the varying string theories began to funnel into one, physicists realized that their equations spoke of a world made not just from strings but also from membranous things called p-branes, with the p standing for the number of dimensions. Especially important to M theory is a special type called a D-brane. In 1995, Dr. Joseph Polchinsky of the University of Santa Barbara showed that D-branes, which come in as many as nine dimensions, described surfaces on which strings can end. D-branes are now seen as entities at least as fundamental as strings and they may even be the fundamental objects from which strings and everything else is made.

Recently, a theory by Dr. Juan Maldacena of Harvard University, has been the source of much excitement. Maldacena used D-branes to construct a quantum field theory in the ordinary four space-time dimensions. He also used D-branes to build a 10-dimensional string theory (with five of the dimensions compactified). By their nature, string theories include gravity. Thus Maldacena was able to show that quantum theory, string theory, and gravity were all intimately related.

An interesting aspect of Maldacena’s new theory is the notion that the universe is holographic. In laser holography, a three dimensional object is projected onto a two-dimensional plane. In the Maldacena model, the four-dimensional field theory can be thought of as a holographic projection of the five dimensional string theory (the other five dimensions having been compactified). “In a holographic universe,” says George Johnson, “the information about everything in a volume of space would be displayed somehow on its surface.” The implications of this notion are only beginning to unfold.

So is string theory the final answer, the super-unified theory that solves the discrepancy between relativity and quantum theory and explains all the forces of nature in the same terms? Understandably, there is much skepticism in the scientific world. The main problem is that no theory can be considered valid until it has produced predictions that can be tested. Up to now, string theory has been entirely conceptual, as there have been no means of testing it.

“We’ve made an enormous amount of progress in the last few years”, says Dr. Steven Giddings of the University of Santa Barbara, “but now we realize the greater depth of our ignorance."

ok this is the second part of my debate and discussion on the elagant
universe this one is more detailed i think but still has the same debatable issues
and i still think that the therory its self is very workable because there are so many difrent things that could come from this ,as shown in this 2and part
sure alot of people think it isnt possable but i think it is .
and i would like to know what others think and would like to debate this if possable with everyone who thinks this theroy is intresting

Miroku4444 · Sep 15, 2006, 08:32 AM

What will we be debating, Im confused?

*HolderOfTheDarkChalice* · Sep 15, 2006, 08:40 AM

modern physics-general relativity and quantum mechanics-give what seem to be conflicting explanations of gravity. i would like to hear everyone beiws on wich theory they think is right i go with the idea of quantum mechanics since the idea of string theory to me has so many variables like the idea of of the holograpic projection of 5 demension's

kedar · Sep 15, 2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miroku4444

What will we be debating, Im confused?

You would have to read it all to find out.

Could it be that Chris is asking for AO members' thoughts on the string theory - a theory that would make possible to unify the four forces of nature - the gravitational force, electromagnetic force, the weak force, and the strong force?

*HolderOfTheDarkChalice* · Sep 15, 2006, 08:45 AM

yes i am actully because i think it would be intresting to se what everyone thinks about this and the idea's that come from it. like the idea of my holographic projection idea that i think they exaplin ,wich makes since

**LenMiyata** · Sep 15, 2006, 09:27 AM

Grumble Grumble Grumble

For Review, I've posted a link to the PBS Nova series episode webpage in the older (stale) version of this thread...
Elegant Universe! - Anime Online Forums:

Miroku4444 · Sep 15, 2006, 09:29 AM

Ok, I see now. Only thing is my head hurts now. This is beyond me, sorry.

*HolderOfTheDarkChalice* · Sep 15, 2006, 09:35 AM

its ok i just thought it would be intresting to get other peoples idea's on this
because it is intresting if you can understand the math and theories behind it all

Sep 15, 2006, 08:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
HolderOfTheDarkChalice Tournaments Won: 1 King Of Darkness Join Date: May 2006 Location: someplace where the only light is the moon above Posts: 2,797 Thanks: 21 Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts Credits: 3,320	Elegant univers PT.2 The puzzle is that the two greatest theories of modern physics-general relativity and quantum mechanics-give what seem to be conflicting explanations of gravity. These theories are well established in the scientific world, causing their irreconcilable differences to be even more plaguing. Albert Einstein’s general theory of relativity and quantum mechanical theory, which began with Einstein and was developed further by many others through the 1920s, have both been verified in countless experiments. Both are embodied by mathematical formulas that can be used to predict natural phenomena. “In fact,” says Jim Gates, “every experiment ever done to test relativity has given positive results. The theory correctly predicts what happens in the real world. And the same is true of quantum theory. They’re both firmly established. They work, and there’s no way to escape that fact.” General relativity and quantum mechanics are the finest achievements of human understanding of the fundamental nature of matter and energy. Their seemingly contradictory statements about gravity, however, show that something is lacking in our understanding of one of the most basic and observable forces of our everyday lives. Quantum theory is a very successful framework for describing three of the four fundamental forces in the standard model . Quantum theory portrays forces as fields transmitted by particles called quanta. The strong force holds the atomic nucleus together. Carried out by gluons, the strong force binds protons in the nucleus and is the source of the sun’s energy and thermonuclear explosions. The weak force governs radioactive processes within the nucleus of the atom and is carried by W-bosons. The two forces that we are able to perceive in the everyday world are gravity and electromagnetism. Electromagnetism, carried by photons moving through space, binds electrons to atomic nuclei and thus is responsible for all chemical reactions. Electromagnetism also makes electrons jump from atom to atom in a wire, producing electricity. In recent decades, physicists have unified electromagnetism and the weak force into one electroweak theory, describing a process in the early universe through which one force could have broken down to yield these two forces. Physicists believe that all four forces are present day remnants of one original force that existed at the time of the Big Bang. As the universe expanded and cooled, this one force eventually changed into the other four forms that we recognize today. Physicists have been less successful using quantum theory to describe the force of gravity. According to quantum theory, gravity must be like the other forces in that it must be carried by special force carrying particles, called gravitons, which move back and forth between particles of matter. The problem is that no one has ever found a graviton. However, based on the strength of the mathematical equations that predict them, scientists have faith that they exist. The conflict is that general relativity also describes gravity, not as a force mitigated by sub-atomic particles, but as kind of an illusion created by the curvature of space. The basic idea is that mass curves space in an infinite number of directions, which causes the force of gravity. This phenomena reaches in all directions from anything that has mass and causes things with less mass to be attracted to things of greater mass, as if they were rolling across rubber sheets curved by the more massive objects. Though this theory is hard to visualize, the mathematics of relativity theory passes every test in the real world that says that this must be what gravity is. Physicists say these short strings vibrate at different frequencies, much like a guitar string, producing various tones. The differing vibrations of these sub-atomic strings show up in scientific instruments as protons, neutrons, photons, and other fundamental particles. For example, a proton can be thought of as three vibrating strings, one for each quark. The different combinations of the vibrations of the strings produce the different properties of the proton, such as charge, mass, and spin. Furthermore, if you give each string a characteristic way to vibrate and calculate the properties of those vibrations with the same formulas developed for describing the vibrations of strings in musical instruments, string theory will give you good mathematical descriptions of all known fundamental particles of matter and energy. Even better, string theory effectively includes gravitons as one of the fundamental particles. Researches studying string theory have found a particle similar to the graviton, arising from the vibrations of the strings. The famous mathematical inconsistency that for decades made it impossible to incorporate quantum gravity with the other fundamental forces of the standard model is absent in string theory. It is almost as if gravity needs strings in order to exist. Strings can be open or closed, sweeping out a worldsheet through space-time. A closed string has periodic boundary conditions while an open string has an endpoint free to move about. Strings interact by splitting and joining. The vibrational modes of strings can be characterized by various quantum numbers, such as mass, spin, etc. This means that each mode carries a set of quantum numbers that correspond to a distinct type of particle, as described above. Thus, all fundamental particles can be described by one object, a string. The hardest pill to swallow concerning string theory is that it makes mathematical sense only if the universe has 26 dimensions. When an early version of string theory emerged in the 1970s, it was realized that one could only believe the equations if the strings were vibrating in a space of 26 dimensions. This is 22 more than the four space-time dimensions that we are in contact with in our everyday existence. Mathematically, it is trivial to add dimensions, but it is only plausible to claim 26 dimensions if it is asserted that 22 of them are hidden from our perception. This is where the idea of compactification plays a major role. In 1984, four Princeton University physicists found a way to make string theory work in a 10-dimensional world, having compactified the other 16 dimensions, curling them up so that they no longer played a role in the everyday world. Later, it was discovered that of all the possible ways to compactify a string into 10-dimensions, only five were mathematically sturdy. Physicists continued to toil with compactification until in the mid 1990s they realized that the five ways to hide the extra dimensions were closely related. The five 10-dimensional string theories were found to be just different views of a single underlying 11-dimensional theory, called M theory. All of the five theories could be connected by “dualities,” mathematical relationships describing the same physics. As the varying string theories began to funnel into one, physicists realized that their equations spoke of a world made not just from strings but also from membranous things called p-branes, with the p standing for the number of dimensions. Especially important to M theory is a special type called a D-brane. In 1995, Dr. Joseph Polchinsky of the University of Santa Barbara showed that D-branes, which come in as many as nine dimensions, described surfaces on which strings can end. D-branes are now seen as entities at least as fundamental as strings and they may even be the fundamental objects from which strings and everything else is made. Recently, a theory by Dr. Juan Maldacena of Harvard University, has been the source of much excitement. Maldacena used D-branes to construct a quantum field theory in the ordinary four space-time dimensions. He also used D-branes to build a 10-dimensional string theory (with five of the dimensions compactified). By their nature, string theories include gravity. Thus Maldacena was able to show that quantum theory, string theory, and gravity were all intimately related. An interesting aspect of Maldacena’s new theory is the notion that the universe is holographic. In laser holography, a three dimensional object is projected onto a two-dimensional plane. In the Maldacena model, the four-dimensional field theory can be thought of as a holographic projection of the five dimensional string theory (the other five dimensions having been compactified). “In a holographic universe,” says George Johnson, “the information about everything in a volume of space would be displayed somehow on its surface.” The implications of this notion are only beginning to unfold. So is string theory the final answer, the super-unified theory that solves the discrepancy between relativity and quantum theory and explains all the forces of nature in the same terms? Understandably, there is much skepticism in the scientific world. The main problem is that no theory can be considered valid until it has produced predictions that can be tested. Up to now, string theory has been entirely conceptual, as there have been no means of testing it. “We’ve made an enormous amount of progress in the last few years”, says Dr. Steven Giddings of the University of Santa Barbara, “but now we realize the greater depth of our ignorance." ok this is the second part of my debate and discussion on the elagant universe this one is more detailed i think but still has the same debatable issues and i still think that the therory its self is very workable because there are so many difrent things that could come from this ,as shown in this 2and part sure alot of people think it isnt possable but i think it is . and i would like to know what others think and would like to debate this if possable with everyone who thinks this theroy is intresting __________________ thanks mellow your sig is top notch http://www.animeonline.net/links/
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Sep 15, 2006, 08:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
Miroku4444 Tournaments Won: 3 Ecchi Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 3,232 Thanks: 2 Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts Credits: 13,919	Re: Elegant univers PT.2 What will we be debating, Im confused? __________________ "You'll hunt me. You'll condemn me, you'll set the dogs on me. But that's what has to happen."
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Sep 15, 2006, 08:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
HolderOfTheDarkChalice Tournaments Won: 1 King Of Darkness Join Date: May 2006 Location: someplace where the only light is the moon above Posts: 2,797 Thanks: 21 Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts Credits: 3,320	Re: Elegant univers PT.2 modern physics-general relativity and quantum mechanics-give what seem to be conflicting explanations of gravity. i would like to hear everyone beiws on wich theory they think is right i go with the idea of quantum mechanics since the idea of string theory to me has so many variables like the idea of of the holograpic projection of 5 demension's __________________ thanks mellow your sig is top notch http://www.animeonline.net/links/
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Sep 15, 2006, 08:45 AM	#5 (permalink)
HolderOfTheDarkChalice Tournaments Won: 1 King Of Darkness Join Date: May 2006 Location: someplace where the only light is the moon above Posts: 2,797 Thanks: 21 Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts Credits: 3,320	Re: Elegant univers PT.2 yes i am actully because i think it would be intresting to se what everyone thinks about this and the idea's that come from it. like the idea of my holographic projection idea that i think they exaplin ,wich makes since __________________ thanks mellow your sig is top notch http://www.animeonline.net/links/
Status: Offline

Sep 15, 2006, 09:27 AM	#6 (permalink)
LenMiyata Grouchy Old Anime Otaku Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Silicon Valley, California Posts: 4,405 Thanks: 0 Thanked 44 Times in 41 Posts Credits: 41,007	Re: Elegant univers PT.2 Grumble Grumble Grumble For Review, I've posted a link to the PBS Nova series episode webpage in the older (stale) version of this thread... Elegant Universe! - Anime Online Forums: __________________ FAVOURITE THREADS EXPLAIN why, or risk an infraction. Rantings of a Grouchy Old Anime Otaku
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Welcome to AnimeOnline.net, your personal Anime Community!	Anime Online Rulez!

Sep 15, 2006, 09:29 AM	#7 (permalink)
Miroku4444 Tournaments Won: 3 Ecchi Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 3,232 Thanks: 2 Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts Credits: 13,919	Re: Elegant univers PT.2 Ok, I see now. Only thing is my head hurts now. This is beyond me, sorry. __________________ "You'll hunt me. You'll condemn me, you'll set the dogs on me. But that's what has to happen."
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Sep 15, 2006, 09:35 AM	#8 (permalink)
HolderOfTheDarkChalice Tournaments Won: 1 King Of Darkness Join Date: May 2006 Location: someplace where the only light is the moon above Posts: 2,797 Thanks: 21 Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts Credits: 3,320	Re: Elegant univers PT.2 its ok i just thought it would be intresting to get other peoples idea's on this because it is intresting if you can understand the math and theories behind it all __________________ thanks mellow your sig is top notch http://www.animeonline.net/links/
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