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Thread: The fall of civilizations!

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    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    The fall of civilizations!

    In another thread there was a discussion, going nowhere, in which was brought up the question of what causes the fall of civilizations. I finally found a reference on the subject and a book Fantastic Families: 6 Proven Steps to Building a Strong Family. This is a new, updated version (with additional research ect.) of a book printed in 1985 Family Building: Six Qualities of a Strong Family. I had mentioned how difficult it was to find information on the subject outside of the professional field, a statement amusingly enough backed up by a Library Journal review of the first version:
    for the layperson, the scholarly bibliography citing journal articles, dissertations, and theses (there are only two popular references) drastically limits follow-up.
    So, since I figured there was no way we were all going to start a book club, purchase copies, and discuss it, I figured instead we could discuss a quote from the book by one of the authors,Dr. Nick Stinnett:

    "As we study some of the ancient cultures such as that of Egypt, Rome and Greece," says Stinnett, "we see a common pattern: When these cultures were coming into the peak of their power and glory as nations, the family was strong. It was important and was valued very highly. Family members cooperated with one another. They depended on each other.

    "Then, as these nations progressed along their paths of destiny, the family came to be not so highly valued, the culture became extremely individualistic. It was a 'do your own thing' philosophy to an excessive degree. The families deteriorated. When that happened the societies themselves fell."



    In many discussions on this forum where people are asked their opinion on everything from drugs to abortion a lot of people respond, "who cares? It is the individuals choice and has nothing to do with me." (paraphrased) Yet according to Dr. Stinnett it is that very attitude that may be ripening our own civilization for a fall.

    So what do you think? Does it matter what people do because it effects society on a whole and may destroy us OR do you feel that the individual independence from the morals of a "traditional" society are worth it and there is no risk?

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    Re: The fall of civilizations!

    Society is comformed by families. The family is the heart of all society. Of course if the heart is damaged the body is going to be as well.
    Now a days the individualism seems to be more important and the family has become the last thing we think about. The family is where the individual learns how to live in society. It is where all of us take our first glince of character... if the family is a good family what you are going to mostly have is a very secure individual with no problems to socialize (of course there are some exceptions... like in everything)
    With strong families the society is strong... the weaker the families the weaker the society...
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    Re: The fall of civilizations!

    About the fall of those great civilisations; It sounds like the family issue is a part of a bigger problem. Stagnation, our pursuit of happiness and wealth and achieving it amongst other things.

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    Re: The fall of civilizations!

    So what do you think? Does it matter what people do because it effects society on a whole and may destroy us OR do you feel that the individual independence from the morals of a "traditional" society are worth it and there is no risk?
    Personally, I think the connection is kind of coincidental.

    For example, the Romans fell because Cavalry trumped the Roman Legion, and they were too stubborn to adapt. In Greece, the Phalanx suffered similar issues, it was too slow and unmaneuverable. Egypt has been taken over so many times, but if you look at something like the Hittite invasion, it was the advantage of iron for example. With the Eastern Romans, it was gunpowder that downed them.

    I'm inclined to beleive that militaristic stupidity/ lack of adaptation is the cause of downfall in a civilization, but I'm willing to note that I haven't read into any family stuff. Maybe if an example were provided that could draw a connection between the two, I'd see it more. Currently, they seem unrelated to moi. I'm fully open to opinions though, it would be interesting to learn if there were such a connection.

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    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: The fall of civilizations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassun View Post
    About the fall of those great civilisations; It sounds like the family issue is a part of a bigger problem. Stagnation, our pursuit of happiness and wealth and achieving it amongst other things.
    I would agree however, even if something is only a symptom of cancer you still have cancer. Can you really separate the indifference of a society to family from what replaces it as a separate issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
    Personally, I think the connection is kind of coincidental.

    For example, the Romans fell because Cavalry trumped the Roman Legion, and they were too stubborn to adapt. In Greece, the Phalanx suffered similar issues, it was too slow and unmaneuverable. Egypt has been taken over so many times, but if you look at something like the Hittite invasion, it was the advantage of iron for example. With the Eastern Romans, it was gunpowder that downed them.

    I'm inclined to beleive that militaristic stupidity/ lack of adaptation is the cause of downfall in a civilization, but I'm willing to note that I haven't read into any family stuff. Maybe if an example were provided that could draw a connection between the two, I'd see it more. Currently, they seem unrelated to moi. I'm fully open to opinions though, it would be interesting to learn if there were such a connection.
    lol Ah, the "who has the better stirrup" argument. One I have used myself at times. That still only covers being conquered from outside forces. I believe this is a matter of not just that but natural disasters or inside politics. I wish we could get more information on the subject but I guess there just isn't a sufficient demand for them to be published to the public.

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    Re: The fall of civilizations!

    I have to agree with Luminous, the direct cause of the fall of those civilizations was though military defeats by a more advanced power.

    I do believe, however, that family is essential to a civilizations moral health. The morals we hold of how we should treat others as people comes from how we treat our relatives. If we don't treat our relatives with love and respect, how can we treat others that way. The health of family does not only apply to blood relatives, but to all the people collectively in a civilization.

    For example, the United States. I believe the United States will never fall (or at least its spirit) if it keeps a strong hold of the values it was founded upon. (Liberty, Justice, Courage, etc.) Each of the strong moral values comes from family and how you treat others.

    Liberty: Trusting your children to make their own decisions and be independent.

    Justice: Punishing and making your children learn from their mistakes.

    Courage: The bravery to accept that you were wrong and to rectify the mistakes that you made, no matter how severe.

    These values are supposed to be taught either through childhood, parenthood, or both. A strong family makes for strong morals. A poor family makes for no morals.


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    Re: The fall of civilizations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    I would agree however, even if something is only a symptom of cancer you still have cancer. Can you really separate the indifference of a society to family from what replaces it as a separate issue?
    If it's a symptom we shouldn't be focusing on it. You don't cure a symptom, you cure what's causing it.

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    Re: The fall of civilizations!

    It's really quite simple I've said it in many other threads similar in nature to this one. For whatever stupid reason people like to divide themselves from others (maybe they're just really insecure in themselves) whatever the reasoning behind it the simple truth and result is... separation whic then leads to a chain of disastrous events whic results in no one winning. If you're intersted in this kind of thing I highly reccomend looking up the Team theory. Basically while the family is important and is the easiest bastion to defend against the ideals set within human ignorance it is not to be limited to only those of similar heritage. Afterall, humans are humans no matter the color of their skin or where they come from on this ifinitisimal speckle in the backdrop we call the universe which is really infinitisimally small to something else so we practically are all related in that one fact... Peace is not the absence of war... it is the only hope for human progression outside of paths that lead to what is relatively insantaneous destruction.

    I'm sorry for the bad grammar and anything that's confusing in here because of poor spelling or watever. I'm not a literary genius just a person who sees the grand mistake that we all make everyday and felt like something needed to be said. Discredit my words over silly little details if you want but then you'd just be the proof to my point, a living example of how much human ignorance really does hurt not only the individual but the whole as well.

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