Thread: False Hope or No Hope.?.

False Hope is better.

No Hope people give up on getting any better and just try to make their current world comfortable (which is okay).

False Hope... it may be false, but they are moving forward. And let's put it this way: If death meant turning into nothingness (no afterlife whatsoever), who wasted their lives? The one who died doing nothing because they accepted there was no hope? Or the one who reached a "delusional" form of enlightenment and died with a smile on their face?
Even if the one with no hope accomplished more in their lives (and many will remember them), what's the point if they found no satisfaction at the end of their lives? They leave behind a life where their accomplishments will never be their own (as it will only belong to the memory of them).
The one with false hopes, even with the lack of accomplishments, has led a happier and more fulfilled life than the other.

Can it be considered delusion?
And what if they were right? What if your beliefs determine where you end up? How sad it would be that many have willed themselves into nothingness.

But let's not get into that:
It depends on your point of view at this point - do you consider one with no hope a realist or a pessimist?

A realist thinks on logic and refuses the emotional reaction of the meaning of life.
A pessimist uses logic to encourage their emotional reaction to the meaning of life.

To a realist, those with false hopes waste their life. However, without their emotional reaction - how is their life different from an advanced A.I.? Their life is about as useless as an inanimate object, yet they deny to feel negative emotions towards that.

To a pessimist, those with false hopes depress them. They seek to bring them down to their level of pessimism... what they don't realize: Is that won't accomplish ANYTHING at all. Certain pessimists will become desperate, some will play off their lives cool, but in the end they all die sad.

I'm not saying that they didn't find comfort in their lives, but if one were to truly think about it: Whatever emotional high they've experienced in their lives (from love, to having a child, etc) would mean nothing in the end. They were living just to have a great ride. ...in that sense, it might have been more productive for them to make all the wrong choices.

One with False Hope though, delusional as they are, are ignorant of the nothing-end. ...and does that halt them from their action at all? How does removing their hope help them in any way? It does nothing to better their benefits to humanity, as many of them would rarely give more if they knew nothing awaited them.

But again... this is all in the idea if there is no such thing to hope for.

And realize this: hope is hope. In the end, there's no such thing as "False Hope". Hope can be placed on something that can be true most times, but can still end with a false answer.
In the same sense: In a universe of infinite possibilities - hope for something that "doesn't exist" is still good - as all things can exist in a world of infinite possibilities (though the probability is low, but hey: Hope doesn't run on probability, it runs on possibility).

Originally Posted by Soshi Kitai

False Hope is better.

No Hope people give up on getting any better and just try to make their current world comfortable (which is okay).

False Hope... it may be false, but they are moving forward. And let's put it this way: If death meant turning into nothingness (no afterlife whatsoever), who wasted their lives? The one who died doing nothing because they accepted there was no hope? Or the one who reached a "delusional" form of enlightenment and died with a smile on their face?
Even if the one with no hope accomplished more in their lives (and many will remember them), what's the point if they found no satisfaction at the end of their lives? They leave behind a life where their accomplishments will never be their own (as it will only belong to the memory of them).
The one with false hopes, even with the lack of accomplishments, has led a happier and more fulfilled life than the other.

Can it be considered delusion?
And what if they were right? What if your beliefs determine where you end up? How sad it would be that many have willed themselves into nothingness.

But let's not get into that:
It depends on your point of view at this point - do you consider one with no hope a realist or a pessimist?

A realist thinks on logic and refuses the emotional reaction of the meaning of life.
A pessimist uses logic to encourage their emotional reaction to the meaning of life.

To a realist, those with false hopes waste their life. However, without their emotional reaction - how is their life different from an advanced A.I.? Their life is about as useless as an inanimate object, yet they deny to feel negative emotions towards that.

To a pessimist, those with false hopes depress them. They seek to bring them down to their level of pessimism... what they don't realize: Is that won't accomplish ANYTHING at all. Certain pessimists will become desperate, some will play off their lives cool, but in the end they all die sad.

I'm not saying that they didn't find comfort in their lives, but if one were to truly think about it: Whatever emotional high they've experienced in their lives (from love, to having a child, etc) would mean nothing in the end. They were living just to have a great ride. ...in that sense, it might have been more productive for them to make all the wrong choices.

One with False Hope though, delusional as they are, are ignorant of the nothing-end. ...and does that halt them from their action at all? How does removing their hope help them in any way? It does nothing to better their benefits to humanity, as many of them would rarely give more if they knew nothing awaited them.

But again... this is all in the idea if there is no such thing to hope for.

And realize this: hope is hope. In the end, there's no such thing as "False Hope". Hope can be placed on something that can be true most times, but can still end with a false answer.
In the same sense: In a universe of infinite possibilities - hope for something that "doesn't exist" is still good - as all things can exist in a world of infinite possibilities (though the probability is low, but hey: Hope doesn't run on probability, it runs on possibility).

You're so philosophical! It's hard to back that up when you covered so much!

I totally agree with you though. I think that false hope is much better than no hope at all. You're at least striving toward something, rather than nothing at all. Even if it's fake or unrealistic. I'm a wishful thinker, so I try my best to keep hope alive, even in my darkest hour. I've hit a point of hopelessness once before and it did me absolutely no good. It wasn't until I pushed myself in to a space of "false hope" to temporarily get by until I found actual hope that things actually felt better.

I like how you bring up the question of "what if our beliefs determine where you end up". It really makes one wonder. I know that hopes and wishes could be a source of your hope or lack there of. But, I don't really think I need to touch on that too much. It's just interesting.

Your perception shapes your reality. If you're thinking negatively, viewing everything as bad, your reality becomes something unpleasant. If you have no hope, you'll find that your reality gives you nothing nice. If you at least think optimistically, even if the hope is false, your reality becomes a bit better as time goes on. Eventually, you find there's IS something to live for and you find actual hope.

It's the law of attraction, really. If you think positive, good things happen. If you think negative, bad things come your way.

If you have no hope, you'd better create some--even if it's slightly delusional. It's better than being a pessimist and shaping your reality in to something nasty.

False Hope... it may be false, but they are moving forward. And let's put it this way: If death meant turning into nothingness (no afterlife whatsoever), who wasted their lives? The one who died doing nothing because they accepted there was no hope? Or the one who reached a "delusional" form of enlightenment and died with a smile on their face?

I would say neither, cause we are maybe, looking at it differently, but the person with no hope still did what he/she wanted just like the person who lived their lives with hope... The person with no hope so to speak just chose not to get side tracked with false belief... And the person with no hope believes in possibilities still, but their perception on possibilities is more rational; more focused on the realistic numbers, higher percentage... They pretty much take the world as is... Their philosophy is: "why hope when you can do & if you can't do then there is no hope"...

Look at it like this < I had an ex co-worker and they asked me do I believe there is hope for mankind??? I said "yes"... They said that is funny... I asked why is that??? They said since you can't do mankind there is no hope for us.... I told them to explain and they told me to look at it like this: You can hope to be a good cook, cause you can do something about it on being a good cook... Now explain what you can do to mankind???
Now that had got me all twisted inside, but basically what they was saying was if it isn't something we can do ourselves, then don't look towards hope to fix it...

A realist thinks on logic and refuses the emotional reaction of the meaning of life.

See my definition on a realist is someone who does have their emotions still in tact, just someone who tends to view things as they are

To a pessimist, those with false hopes depress them

Again with that I just don't see how a pessimist will be depressed by someone with false hope, yea' I know they look at the negativity in every possibilities, but to me you need that... You can't have all optimist everywhere not planning or thinking for the worst case scenario...

I think the people working for BP should of had a little more pessimist on their side maybe they would actually had a plan that worked...

Trust me I am that type of person that hopes for the best, but plans for the worst... Makes things seem more sweet and others less harsh...

I am not through with some of your opinions, just got to to make a quick run get back with the topic and edit when I can... ^_^

It's the law of attraction, really. If you think positive, good things happen. If you think negative, bad things come your way.

Yea' I read a book on that never finished it, but I think it was called the "Secret", it was explaining pretty much what you just said about the whole "law of the universe" with positivity and negativity...

>=( Soshi Kitai, and atomik_sprout beat me to all the good comments >.< (lol)
(don't take this against me lol)

"If you have no hope, you'd better create some--even if it's slightly delusional. It's better than being a pessimist and shaping your reality in to something nasty."

-well taking this from a pessimist point of view (myself) I would say this is not always the case... i would not say that I have no hope, but I just choise to not believe in hope in witch I think could never happen?

"You can't have all optimist everywhere not planning or thinking for the worst case scenario..."
-true there has to be a mix or everone will be naively walking through life without a care to live? (maybe not, but perhaps)

And to the question: "Is false hope better than no hope???"

Yes, and no. It is better to not go though life (in the world we live in) naively but it is also true if you go to far without false hope then you'll stop living (depression, ect.). So live with false hope but not to much false hope ^_^ (flase to true)

Originally Posted by Inuruto

Yea' I read a book on that never finished it, but I think it was called the "Secret", it was explaining pretty much what you just said about the whole "law of the universe" with positivity and negativity...

The Secret is a pretty cool book. I wouldn't really call it the key to all great things but it's a good read. I seen the DVD and it has a bunch of different people on there, including a quantum physicist. But, I'm straying from the topic.

Originally Posted by atomik_sprout

The Secret is a pretty cool book. I wouldn't really call it the key to all great things but it's a good read. I seen the DVD and it has a bunch of different people on there, including a quantum physicist. But, I'm straying from the topic.

No it is cool, you pretty much already gave me your insight on the topic at hand...lol And I very much appreciate it, but yea' I think I had read like the first three maybe four chapters & I put it down cause one of my co-workers saw me reading it and said something like "you actually bought that book, man you wasted your $17" and I must admit I was very self conscious at the time. I am the type of person who can care less of what someone else thinks about me... But there are times when I am vulenerable or weak.... Hell the whole purpose of me reading, buying the book in the first place was for self inspiration.lol I am a dope, but I still have it somewhere in my closet, so I might just pick it back up and finish it, cause I am also a person who dislikes to leave things unfinished, but I am a procrastinator... ^_^ To be honest I didn't even know there was a dvd about it... I might check out that also. I love hearing about people theories, ideas, and conspiracies and what nots... Makes life that more interesting & also gives you more to think about... Well now I am off the topic... Thanks again 'Sprout, one of AO's finest...lol *compliment* ^_^

Originally Posted by Inuruto

I would say neither, cause we are maybe, looking at it differently, but the person with no hope still did what he/she wanted just like the person who lived their lives with hope...

Ah, but one can also say "The person with false hope lived the same fruitful life as the one with no hope". In that sense, both lived and died happily, but one obtained a sense of enlightenment.
Even if it were false, does it matter in the end?

The person with no hope so to speak just chose not to get side tracked with false belief...

Side-tracked by what exactly? In a world with no hope at all: There's no such thing as distractions -- as there's nothing to obtain from focus.
While the adventure is fun, the goal is the only thing that needs focus. And without a complete goal, there's no real reason to not be side-tracked.

In a world of no hope, one should find happiness in all that they do - live it up before they die it down. Distractions are key in this sense.

And the person with no hope believes in possibilities still, but their perception on possibilities is more rational; more focused on the realistic numbers, higher percentage...

What you seem to be talking about is an agnostic with a realist attitude.
Which, while understandable, is contradictory.

Nothing is gained from "kind of believing". One doesn't attain anything or dodge anything.
They can die knowing "they kind of knew", but all that will let them do is see the truth at the end without ever attaining it.
Example:
If one knew there was a CHANCE that a tree bore a golden fruit once every thousand years (and the thousand year anniversary were coming up), they would stand close to the tree, as they know the fruit only lasts for 5 seconds. However, being realistic, they don't think they should waste their time believing in something that possibly couldn't exist --- so they step further away. Suddenly, when the fruit comes into being, they're too far away from the fruit to have a taste - but have been so close to see it.
In the end, what do they get? The knowledge of being proven wrong or right? Nothing. They wasted their time trying to know, but they wasted their opportunity trying to rationalize.

One foot in, one foot out, never experiencing either rooms at their full experience.

They pretty much take the world as is... Their philosophy is: "why hope when you can do & if you can't do then there is no hope"...

That's agnostic, that's not no hope, that's some hope. Or rather, that's hope in hope. Hoping that hope would exist, but not hoping in the direct aim of the hope.

Look at it like this < I had an ex co-worker and they asked me do I believe there is hope for mankind??? I said "yes"... They said that is funny... I asked why is that??? They said since you can't do mankind there is no hope for us.... I told them to explain and they told me to look at it like this: You can hope to be a good cook, cause you can do something about it on being a good cook... Now explain what you can do to mankind???

Hope isn't a tool to change things, it is a tool to push one to change things.
Hope does nothing without action.
And one can't do that action without that hope. For doing it without the hope is fruitless, as you obtain nothing from the action.

And as a side-note: I have hope in humanity, but I don't have faith in them. I find hope in their possibility, but because of their lack of probability, I have a lack of faith in them. (as a side-side-note, by gf is the opposite: No hope in humanity, but faith in them. While it may seem contradictory, it all has to do with Hope=Rationality and Faith=Irrational to her.)

Now that had got me all twisted inside, but basically what they was saying was if it isn't something we can do ourselves, then don't look towards hope to fix it...

Humanity doesn't want to feel guilt for their actions. They want their actions to produce an effect, but they don't want the responsibility of its failures at all.
Now in this sense, look at all religions. All those rules and verses and mantras and etc. etc. etc.
Many religions try to force this idea of responsibility. But there's a lack of logic within it, because the idea of responsibility is not always directly correlated with a physical truth or untruth. To many, it's almost a moral preference. ...and that's where many of us break away from one another.

If, perchance, you were immortal and had to watch over mankind... would you find yourself as a watcher, a guardian, or a judge?
A judge destroys those that weaken mankind directly or indirectly.
A guardian protects the innocent from the "bad apples".
And a watcher watches.
How would one judge mankind?

I'm a watcher in personality. I watch, because mankind's actions bear its fruit. What we reap is what we sow. The "bad things happen to good people" because we have allowed the bad people to continue their actions. In a sense, I can be the guardian and protect "the good", or I can be a judge and damn "the bad". Or I can watch, and allow whatever karma mankind has doomed itself to - to happen.
Is this a lack of hope? Nay, I find that some people can make a difference.
Me? If I made a difference, I'd prefer to be a judge. However, we are all humans - and all humans care about one another in some form. Even hatred and sorrow is a reaction of care. And in that sense, I cannot judge without others judging me... and while I may not care what they do to me, I know it would affect my gf, and in that sense: I would not risk judgement. So I watch.

See my definition on a realist is someone who does have their emotions still in tact, just someone who tends to view things as they are.

A realist may accept things with their knowledge, but they deny their emotional reaction. As a realist would realize that a lack of hope, would mean no need of existence. The emotional reaction to that is desperation.
That desperation comes in the form of the abuse drugs and alcohol, suicide, unhealthy lifestyles, opposing their peers' teachings, ignoring danger, and etc.

Everyone can view things just as how they are, but that doesn't make them a realist. Pessimists see things as just how they are, but their emotions run rampant on that reaction.
A realist, denies that emotion, as it would realistically do nothing for them. I'm not saying they're stone-cold, but I am saying they are ignoring their natural emotions from realizing the truth behind their own words.

Again with that I just don't see how a pessimist will be depressed by someone with false hope, yea' I know they look at the negativity in every possibilities, but to me you need that...

One with false hope, they see, are wasting their lives. So a pessimist finds themselves sad for them, or angered at them. They want the ones with with hope to realize that there is none.
And seeing negativity in things doesn't make you a pessimist per se, it's what you do about it that makes one a pessimist.

You can't have all optimist everywhere not planning or thinking for the worst case scenario...

Tell that to my gf. She's always optimistic, ignorant of dangers, and always hopeful. The worst case scenario never happens to her due to her outward attitude towards others (being honest and kind can give you the same reaction from others).
Mind you, I'm always preparing for a worst case scenario, so I balance her out.

What I am saying is: You CAN exist with that always-optimistic attitude. Whether one pays the price for ignorance, is not mine to judge (as my gf's gotten out of horrible situations unaffected and actually with prizes... as if she came out of a nuclear explosion unharmed and came out with Twinkies)

I think the people working for BP should of had a little more pessimist on their side maybe they would actually had a plan that worked...

You think they were all optimistic? Psh, they were just ***holes. There's a difference between being optimistic and being cocky.

Trust me I am that type of person that hopes for the best, but plans for the worst... Makes things seem more sweet and others less harsh...

Then that means you don't have "no hope", that means you have "false hopes".

Planning for the worst and hoping for the best, shows a lack of faith - but an emphasis on hope.