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Thread: Franklin Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor Conspiracy

  1. #9
    AO Animator mellow maromi may be famous one day mellow maromi may be famous one day mellow maromi's Avatar
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    Re: Franklin Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor Conspiracy

    I agree with the conspiracy. It seems likely. We did provoke japan.

    Instead of placing an embargo on japan, we couldve formed a treaty with them that they can take what ever they want, just no the phillopenes, and it couldve been over there. But no we had to be all showboaty about it, cutting off oil and supplys to japan.

    That was the reason they invaded china and what not in the first place, they had no supplys of there own, no resources, they relyed solely on foreign imports.

    We cut them off, it only made them more frustrated and eager.

  2. #10
    Nisou Tenshi Hot Shots Champion, Elroy Learns To Fly Champion, Daves Castle Hunt Champion, Mom-Jongg! Champion, Uncle Sam Champion Priestess Angel may be famous one day Priestess Angel may be famous one day Priestess Angel's Avatar
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    Re: Franklin Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor Conspiracy

    Quite frankly, I find this deeply insulting. Thousands of American soldiers and civilians died at Perl.

    My grandfather served in the pacific theater as a Navy Flight Lieutenant, and was at Pearl Harbour, and went on to serve at Midway and Iwo Jima.

    I ask you this, where's your source? If you're going to post something that is most likely a load of *ahem* Hoo-ha, then at least back up your claims with the source you derived your opinions from.
    I got all this information from the History Channel which is a pretty reliable source to my mind. My intention for starting this thread wasn't to ruffle anyone's feathers but just to start an intelligent debate and maybe learn some more facts on the subject. Just because I put up this thread doesn't mean I don't respect the people who died because of the Pearl Harbor attacks. It's just a topic that is very controversial and that I wanted to discuss. Besides, if there is a topic that you find offending or uncomfortable to talk about then you do have the choice of not reading or posting on it.

    Youth-anime-fan also put up some good sources and you can just google the subject and you will get a lot of articles and sites based subject. Here is some more links about the subject if you are still unsatisfied.

    December 7, 1941: A Set Up from the Beginning
    The Pearl Harbor Deception
    Franklin Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor
    Advance Warning?
    The Red Cross Connection

    Pearl Harbor
    Pearl Harbor: Could it have been prevented?

    As you can see, there are plenty of sources.

    Now as far as your conspiracy theory is concerned, why would an attack by the Japanese justify the US declaring War on Germany, (which had nothing to do with the attack at Pearl Harbor...) Germany had already declared the waters around Britain a War zone, declaring all merchant shipping as fair game for the U-boats, and by International law, didn't need to declare war against the US to do this. And the US Navy was already defending the merchant convoys against the U-boats, (and having US sailors killed in the process) and didn't need a declaration of war to do that either... As it turns out, after the US declared war against Japan, Hitler committed one of the biggest mistakes by declaring War against the US (as their self-defence obligation as part of the tripartite Axis alliance between Germany, Italy, and Japan...)
    Well, the reason that many people have thought that Franklin Roosevelt would have used Japan as a way to get into the war is the fact that for one that Franklin Roosevelt really wanted to declare war on Germany but with how most Americans thought about the war it would have been too much protest and cause too much inner turmoil in the country. If the Japanese which was apart of the Axis Powers of course attacked the U.S. it would cause the American people to become furious and rightfully so. That would have given Franklin Roosevelt the perfect reason to go to war with Germany. The reason for them to first declare war on Germany instead of Japan would be the fact that Germany was the leader of the Axis Powers and the other countries in the Axis Powers would most likely fall apart (Kind of like the military strategy that says if you take out the leader then you take out the army). That is why it has been considered so strongly that Franklin Roosevelt might have done it without the worry of suspiscion.

    Anyway, I'm not saying that I believe in the conspiracy but I am just saying what I know.

    This is another fact I found talking about the conspiracy and one of the major reasons that it has become much more plausible to many.

    A previously unsubstantiated report that President Franklin D. Roosevelt requested the national office of the American Red Cross to send medical supplies secretly to Pearl Harbor in advance of the 7 December 1941 Japanese attack is beginning to look much more feasible.
    USNI U.S. Naval Institute
    Last edited by Priestess Angel; Feb 07, 2007 at 04:09 PM.

  3. #11
    Bored college student fayt lingod may be famous one day fayt lingod may be famous one day fayt lingod's Avatar
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    Re: Franklin Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor Conspiracy

    this is the most rediculous thing i've seen in a very very long time. if the Pearl harbor attacks could have been prevented they would have been. hte idea the the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES would purposely ignore impending doom is ASSANINE. FDR did the best he could in the war, and if anything those soureces fabricated or took evidence from incorrect sources.

    if anyone can accually find the orriginal "tapes" or "recodings" that would offer any shred of proof to this then i would start to consider it.

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  4. #12
    AO Animator mellow maromi may be famous one day mellow maromi may be famous one day mellow maromi's Avatar
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    Re: Franklin Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor Conspiracy

    Quote Originally Posted by fayt lingod View Post
    this is the most rediculous thing i've seen in a very very long time. if the Pearl harbor attacks could have been prevented they would have been. hte idea the the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES would purposely ignore impending doom is ASSANINE. FDR did the best he could in the war, and if anything those soureces fabricated or took evidence from incorrect sources.

    if anyone can accually find the orriginal "tapes" or "recodings" that would offer any shred of proof to this then i would start to consider it.
    What about what bush did at 9/11? He heard the call from "osama", why didnt they scramble jets? The f16s couldve destroyed the air planes before they hit the buildings, but they didnt do anything.

    Do you really think 3 terrorists with a box cutter and take over a whole plain with over 100 people? no.

    bush let the terrorists attack, so that we had an excuse to go to the middle east.

    Just like truman, he let the japanese attack pearl habor, so that we had an excuse to go to war.

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    Re: Franklin Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor Conspiracy

    Quote Originally Posted by mellow maromi View Post
    What about what bush did at 9/11? He heard the call from "osama", why didnt they scramble jets? The f16s couldve destroyed the air planes before they hit the buildings, but they didnt do anything.

    Do you really think 3 terrorists with a box cutter and take over a whole plain with over 100 people? no.

    bush let the terrorists attack, so that we had an excuse to go to the middle east.

    Just like truman, he let the japanese attack pearl habor, so that we had an excuse to go to war.
    Why don't you back it up with PROOF! I'm tired of hearing about your hair brained conspiracy theories that don't' make sense in the light of day. If your so sure Roosevelt or Bush caused or allowed these things to happen then PROVE it. Until you can, kindly state that it's your opinion only. By the way, there is no proof. If there was proof the Democrats would have brought Bush up on charges by now.


    But to address your points.

    1. The President of the United States pre 9/11 would NEVER have fired military weapons on a civilian plane carrying American passengers. To even suggest that after the fact shows how little you know of pre 9/11 policy. Any President who did would be committing political suicide. Besides, there was no reason to believe the planes would be used as weapons. All previous instances of high jackings were done to take hostages for political purposes, not use the planes as weapons.

    2. Three terrorists with a box cutter CAN and DID take planes hostage. They've been doing it for decades. The reason? Because even if your taken hostage you can survive the experience. Passengers on the two planes that hit the twin towers thought they were being taken hostage. They found out otherwise to late.

    Once the passengers on flight UA93 found out that they were going to be killed anyway and the plane used as a weapon they DID successfully stop the terrorists from executing the plan and attempted to take back the plane.

    Stop applying Post 9/11 mentality to a pre 911 situation.

    Now about Pearl Harbor...why don't you go back and read Len's excellent post on the subject and stop playing the "Blame America First" game.

    Instead of spouting off what you've heard from talking heads on TV...why not just think through the logical ramifications of what you propose. These theories are just THEORIES because they have no basis in FACT. If they did then charges would have been brought up against Bush now (and Roosevelt in his day) by his political enemies. But that hasn't happened yet, now has it.

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    Re: Franklin Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor Conspiracy

    Not sure if any of you have heard of the town/city of Coventry in Britain, but during World War II the Germans launched a huge bombing campaign which pretty much obliterated the city.

    After the attack, there was a belief (which was quite prevalent up until awhile ago) that Winston Churchill had let the attack happen on purpose. The reasoning was that the Brits had just broken the Enigma Machine codes, and they had intercepted a transmission of the German's plans for the bombing campaign. If the Brit's acted on the information, then the German's would have known that the Enigma code was broken, so in order to keep that a secret the British allowed the attack to occur without warning the citizens of Coventry (who suffered major losses).

    Anyhoo, that theory had been floating around but was proven false. While the British HAD just broken the Enigma code, and did intercept a transmission from the German's, it didn't actually divulge the plans for the bombing. Not unlike what Len was saying about the transmission received from Japan. It didn't divulge any critical information warning of an attack.


    Anyhoo, as for opinion on the matter, no I don't think that Roosevelt let the attack happen. First off, it was a complete fluke that the majority of the American naval fleet weren't wiped out in the attack, because they had been stationed in Pearl Harbour up until the attack. The main fleet was out for training when the attack happened, thus narrowly avoided being blown up. Had that happened, America's naval power would have been almost completely destroyed. The Japanese wanted the Pearl Harbour attack to be one swift movement, and wanted to destroy the american fleet at once, but that didn't happen. They did inflict damage though on the fleet, but not on the scale they wanted.

    America declaring war on Germany was inevitable, because if the allies in Europe failed, the next place Germany would set its sights on would be North America. Japan's attack just hastened America's declaration of war.

    Also, just since it was mentioned, I'd like to give props to the Canadian Navy who were (next to the British Navy) the main force in the Battle of the Atlantic, and kept Britain alive by protecting and escorting vessels. Because of our main involvement in the Battle of the Atlantic, Canada's navy grew to be the third largest navy in the world (though after the war we never continued up with that, so now our navy isn't up there in size anymore). So yeah...just gotta give props hehe.

    Now, back to conspiracy-esque thoughts. While I don't believe that Pearl Harbour or the bombing of Coventry were purposefully allowed to happen, I do believe that a government would most certainly allow the deaths of some of its citizens in a super critical moment of war, in order to save the majority.

    I'm not gonna get into 9/11 (though I will say that there was NO conspiracy) because this is aboot WWII, but to use it as an example, while the government didn't shoot down any of the planes, if that event were to happen now and they knew a plane was about to smoke the white house (or let's say a building like the WTC), they would certainly fire on that plane at the last allowable minute, after using all other resources. At the last allowable time, they'd know that #1. The citizens on that plane are already dead, whether they shoot the missile or not, and #2. The government has to protect itself and cut its losses. They wouldn't just sit by and watch the plane smack the building.

    Like, let's say a nuclear attack was about to happen and a government knew. The FIRST people that would be getting out of the way and given priority would be government officials. While citizens are an important part of a country, the government is far more important and can't work if the head is being cut off.

    Pretty much priority would be #1: Government, #2: Military, #3: Medical, #4: Civilians. The country can't function without the government, so those people will be secured first. They can't fight wars and protect themselves without the military, so those will come second. Medics can go in after an event and help the wounded. Civilians can't do anything, except provide tax money. A few civilian deaths would be justified by a government to protect the majority.

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  7. #15
    Grouchy Old Anime Otaku LenMiyata has become well known LenMiyata has become well known LenMiyata has become well known LenMiyata's Avatar
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    Re: Franklin Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor Conspiracy

    Grumble Grumble Grumble
    Quote Originally Posted by Chubz View Post
    ... Anyhoo, as for opinion on the matter, no I don't think that Roosevelt let the attack happen. First off, it was a complete fluke that the majority of the American naval fleet weren't wiped out in the attack, because they had been stationed in Pearl Harbour up until the attack. The main fleet was out for training when the attack happened, thus narrowly avoided being blown up. Had that happened, America's naval power would have been almost completely destroyed. The Japanese wanted the Pearl Harbour attack to be one swift movement, and wanted to destroy the american fleet at once, but that didn't happen. They did inflict damage though on the fleet, but not on the scale they wanted.
    This isn't quite correct either. The main battleship fleet WAS IN PERL HARBOR, which resulted in the crippling of the US Pacific fleet, clearing the way for the Japanese invasion and occupation of the Philippines. What wasn't in Perl Harbor, out on training and supply missions were the primary targets of the Japanese attack, the three Pacific fleet aircraft carriers. (which by US doctrine at the time, were primarily used for scouting missions for the battle line...) The dive bombers that were assigned to attack the carriers, instead went after battleships, which resulted in the fluke hit and destruction of the Arizona. Modern studies of the Arizona hulk has come to the conclusion that one of the bombs (where were converted 6 inch artillery shells with fins attached) must have fallen through an open deck hatch into the magazine...

    The Perl Harbor attack essentially left only 2 modern US battleships in the Pacific to defend the West Coast of the US. In the long run, the crippling of the Battleship line was a favor for the US, as it forced their rapid rebuilding and rearmament with modern dual purpose anti-aircraft guns, used for defending aircraft carriers from air attacks. It also forced the US Navy to change its operational doctrine from one built around battleships, to a long range air strikes from the carriers. This led to the carrier launched B-25 raids against Japan (mostly for propaganda), the battle of the Coral Sea (a tactical loss for the US, but the first time a Japanese invasion fleet was forced to abort) where for the first time in Naval history that the ships involved in the battle never sighted an enemy ship, and battle of Midway...
    Last edited by LenMiyata; Feb 12, 2007 at 05:30 PM.
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    Re: Franklin Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor Conspiracy

    I'm not gonna get into 9/11 (though I will say that there was NO conspiracy) because this is aboot WWII, but to use it as an example, while the government didn't shoot down any of the planes, if that event were to happen now and they knew a plane was about to smoke the white house (or let's say a building like the WTC), they would certainly fire on that plane at the last allowable minute, after using all other resources. At the last allowable time, they'd know that #1. The citizens on that plane are already dead, whether they shoot the missile or not, and #2. The government has to protect itself and cut its losses. They wouldn't just sit by and watch the plane smack the building.
    Actually, back in the Clinton admin there was a fellow who DID fly is passenger plane into the white house. He did it on purpose to kill President Clinton. It was not shot out of the sky. Instead, they evacuated the building.

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