Re: Give marriage rights to gays?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mega 
Who are we to call one person wrong for living as they wish? We are all human beings, and should not view ourselves as deserving or fit to decide what is acceptable and unacceptable in regards to the lives of others. There should be no human authority, only self governing beliefs. No person is above another, and nobody has the right to deny anyone an equal stake in life. Abstaining from what you do not condone is one thing, but to assert yourself over another person, no matter what you use as an excuse (religion, politics) is just self righteous, intolerant, bullying. Equal rights to all people.
I totally agree. Thank you for saying it in a less angry tone than I. LOL.
No human being should ever be treated like they're lower than another human being for ANY reason. Saying that homosexuals are lower than heterosexuals is like saying that they're not even part of the same species. Like they're dogs or dirt. That's a low blow. Personally, I think that the people who set up these laws are extremely homophobic. I believe that those who are homophobic are secretly gay and that's why they act the way they do when the topic is brought up. Whoever created the "Don't ask, don't tell" law in the military HAD to have been way deep in the closet for him to even consider the thought of keeping other gay people out the army or in the closet while in the army.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
starfire1036 You say that we choose to be gay? We choose to get harassed and beat up and murdered?
I hate the face that you can assume it is a choice. You are saying, that since we choose to like and F**k people of the same gender, we also chose to be beat up, harassed, murdered.
I do not CHOOSE to be gay! I do not CHOOSE to have sex with women. I DO NOT CHOOSE to have the urges and feelings I have when it comes to seeing a very attractive girl walk near me. You must be talking about all those teen girls who decide "I'll pretend to like girls and guys so that more guys will want to date me."
I am so so so sure that if we knew that we were going to be murdered for being who we were, we would have never came out.
Religion is a choice.
People who are gay can CHOOSE to hide it. They can CHOOSE to ignore it and pretend to be straight but they do not CHOOSE to get aroused by members of the same sex, same as you do not CHOOSE to be aroused by members of the opposite sex.
I guess since people kill other people for their religious choices it is okay to kill people for their apparent choice of sexual orientation.
*Stands up and claps*
You go, girl! (Way to sound like a stereotypical black lady, Sprout. LOL.):D:
Back to serious matters. *coughs*
Sigmund Freud, who was one of the leading minds in the realm of psychology, even said people shouldn't be treated as "lower than human" for being homosexual.
This is what he wrote regarding a woman who wanted him to "fix" her son:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud's_views_on_homosexuality
I gather from your letter that your son is a homosexual. I am most impressed by the fact that you do not mention this term yourself in your information about him. May I question you why you avoid it? Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation; it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function, produced by a certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest men among them. (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc). It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime –and a cruelty, too.
I fully agree that girls (sometimes guys too) who pretend to be bi-sexual to get the attention of the other gender are really giving gay people a bad label. They go about acting like you can choose to be gay and then go back to being straight several days later. It's not the case. One of my best friends may be engaged to marry a woman but he likes the hell out of men too. He's just loyal to one person right now. I've known of him having relationships with people of the same gender and nobody treats him poorly because of it. He didn't choose to be that way. He just IS that way and is no worse than anyone else. For anyone to have a predetermined view of homosexuality without even TRYING to get to know a person who is gay/lesbian is WRONG.
Re: Give marriage rights to gays?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
atomik_sprout I totally agree. Thank you for saying it in a less angry tone than I. LOL.
No human being should ever be treated like they're lower than another human being for ANY reason. Saying that homosexuals are lower than heterosexuals is like saying that they're not even part of the same species. Like they're dogs or dirt. That's a low blow. Personally, I think that the people who set up these laws are extremely homophobic. I believe that those who are homophobic are secretly gay and that's why they act the way they do when the topic is brought up. Whoever created the "Don't ask, don't tell" law in the military HAD to have been way deep in the closet for him to even consider the thought of keeping other gay people out the army or in the closet while in the army.
I disagree that everyone that is a homophobic is gay. I believe that some are gay, however I actually know a guy who is a homophobic because as a child he was raped by a gay man. I believe the military created "Don't ask, don't tell" to protect gay soldiers because some straight soldiers will beat up people for being gay and it's the military's way of trying to keep fights from happening between the soldiers. I like to think that 5 generations down the road being gay wont be such a big thing because around that time the percentage of gay people will be close to straight people.
Re: Give marriage rights to gays?
I just read everyone's post and I am with the majority of the ones who say give them the right; set aside religion, politics, bias thinking, if we are ever going to grow as a country & accept people as people give them the so called "equality" we are supposedly founded on... This country kills me how they are quick to say "land of the free," but still enslaved by their vain thinking... We as a nation will never progress without progression, acceptance, understanding.... They say that the kids are the generation of the future, why teach them the past of destruction, pure hatred, fear, corruption... Try to lead and teach them down the so called "right path" , but in all reality we are leading them down the same teachings and beliefs of the Flintstones... Nothing in this world can go without change, that is the whole statement of evolution... So if we expect for "our next generation" to evolve into this great nation then expect & accept change... Not saying that accepting gay marriage will solve everything, but it is a start in the right direction, cause if this nation would of learned anything from the civil rights movement, then we probably wouldn't even be having this whole debate and discussion... I know history repeats itself, but "I WONDER why"???
Re: Give marriage rights to gays?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
atomik_sprout If your friend has "homosexual temptation", chances are he's waaay deep in the closet and is really gay. You don't just wake up one morning and CHOOSE to be gay. You're trippin' dude. Not a single gay person I've met an gotten to know on a personal basis has ever just woke up and said, "*yawn* I think I'm gonna go out and give another guy some oral lovin'." To even think that anybody has a choice in the matter is ridiculous.
You are right in the fact that you don't just wake up one day and choose to be gay. I'll agree with that. It's a temptation that builds overtime. The choice comes in when you either give into temptation or you don't. The way I see it my friend is incredibly straight for overcoming that temptation. Not every temptation hits everyone. He struggled with it, realized it was wrong, and now the thought doesn't even occur to him anymore. (granted this is to my knowledge from what he says, but I trust his word)
Quote:
Your choice dude. That doesn't make them any less equal for being that way.
All men are created equal. It's what you do with your life that determines your worth.
Quote:
You're overlooking the fact that it was a sign of masculinity until people actually started writing against it and shunning the practice all together. And that "masculine expression" lasted for a LONG, long time.
You're half right here. The domination of another person whether it be sexually or not is considered masculine. The homosexual act itself is not. This is why most men often try to oust one another or resort to physical violence to prove themselves to be better and in effect put them in a position above the other person. Being that today's homosexual acts are mutual there is nothing masculine about them, unless of course the two have a fetish for such things.
Quote:
You DO realize that Catholocism is still Christianity, right? It was the ONLY organized form of Christianity for a great long while. Before then, it was Jews who either believed Christ was the Messiah and the Jews who were still waiting for the Messiah. Not much of an organized religion there. I think it's funny that Protestants try to act like Catholocism isn't Christian. Do they not believe in Christ? Either way, you've completely missed my point entirely. I think YOU need to research the subject, my friend. You may be Protestant (meaning any other form of Christian besides Catholic) but that doesn't mean Catholics aren't of the same cloth. You're both praising the same Jesus. You just have different practices. I've done my fair share of bible studies in the thirty years I've been alive. Have you? I read other scriptures too AND my brother is a theology major. So, let's not make this an "I know more about religion than you" debate.
I agree that there are many different forms of Christianity but Catholicism isn't one of them. Catholicism may have been the first organized form of Christianity but that doesn't mean its right. What I'm about to say will definitely make some people mad, but I'm willing to step on a few toes to stand up for my beliefs. Revelation 17 talks about a woman who is worshipped by those who testify to Jesus. The woman is filled with sin and those who worship her will go against Jesus. While it doesn’t state that this is the Catholic Church I believe it to be. This should help in your understanding why I don’t view the Catholic Church as a part of Christianity.
Also I concede that you may have more religious experience then me. You’ve got ten years of life on me and you claim to have study multiple scriptures. I on the other hand don’t intend to just take you on your word of having more knowledge than me. I intend to test you instead. Otherwise how would I know?
Re: Give marriage rights to gays?
Billum256 If you think that homosexuality is a choice then please please explain to me how choosing to be gay is way worse than choosing to cut off a a mans head for your religion? Is me having sex with a girl sooo much worse than those religious atavists and terrorists taking the life of a father, son, husband, brother, uncle, nephew, cousin, and grandfather when they choose to saw his head off on live TV? I'm not having sex on TV. I am not killing people or cutting their heads off for the all might lord. I am just simply living the way my heart and my genetic structure wishes me to. Yes I can CHOOSE to have sex with a man, have kids, and get married, but this doesn't mean I will be happy or be attracted to him because god says it should be that way. I choose to be me, not to be something people hate, despise, want to die, think should go to hell. I do not choose to be something that will potentially get me raped and murdered by someone who believed god says I should f**k a man. I nor will any other LGBT person subdue themselves to your opinions. You may think it is a choice but YOU ARE WRONG. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is that GOD DOESN'T EXIST. This is my choice. I choose to believe he doesn't exist.
thank you atomik :)
Re: Give marriage rights to gays?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Billum256 You are right in the fact that you don't just wake up one day and choose to be gay. I'll agree with that. It's a temptation that builds overtime. The choice comes in when you either give into temptation or you don't. The way I see it my friend is incredibly straight for overcoming that temptation. Not every temptation hits everyone. He struggled with it, realized it was wrong, and now the thought doesn't even occur to him anymore. (granted this is to my knowledge from what he says, but I trust his word)
:laugh: LMAO!!! Oh, my stomach! So, my friend was tempted to like guys, eh? I'll have to tell him that and see what he has to say about your opinion. In fact, I'll dictate it.
Are you serious??? You can't honestly believe that there's mythical beast of sorts, in this case the devil, that prods you with a pitchfork and says, "Hey, buddy! Go have gay sex right now! I promise it'll be fun!" :laugh: I mean, if that's what you believe, you probably don't really trust science either. In that case, turn off your computer, cell phone and video games, then sell them. I really don't wanna turn this in to a religion vs. science debate.
If your friend had a "gay temptation battle" (sounds like an awesome band name, LOL), then chances are that he's gay and has been for a while and doesn't want to share it with you or anyone else due to the bias opinions of others. "Temptation"... Pshh! I won't even lie, I was confused about my sexuality for a while but it wasn't temptation. I was just an effeminate kid (still kind of am). So, I thought I'd end up liking guys at some point early in high school. Turns out, I just have some womanly qualities (IE: the way I stand sometimes, or my occasional limp wrist). Does that mean I had battled some kind of demon? NO! I just didn't know where I stood because it took me a while to get comfortable with my sexuality and the way I was/am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billum256
All men are created equal. It's what you do with your life that determines your worth.
It's not about what you did, what you do or where you're going. We're all equal. All men, women, children and... PEOPLE in general! We're no better than that of a drug addict, nor are we better than a homeless person. So, why would you dare assume that a homosexual is any less of a person??? You need to open your mind. The above idea you just expressed is the exact reason why we've had civil rights issues in this country since it was "founded" (stolen is more like it).
If it was what we did with our lives that determined our worth then, we'd all be worth s***! Excuse my language but it's true. What have you done other than be a heterosexual?? Huh? Answer me that? So, you're worth more than another human being? Keep in mind that things of monetary value mean nothing when considering the worth of a fellow human being.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billum256
You're half right here. The domination of another person whether it be sexually or not is considered masculine. The homosexual act itself is not. This is why most men often try to oust one another or resort to physical violence to prove themselves to be better and in effect put them in a position above the other person. Being that today's homosexual acts are mutual there is nothing masculine about them, unless of course the two have a fetish for such things.
Bull, it wasn't just about domination. There's sculptures from millennia ago that depict the "manliness" of homo-eroticism. You wanna go back in time and dispute that with the people who were actually doin' it, you go ahead.
On another note: Some people still use homosexual sex to prove their "masculinity". You obviously never met anyone from prison or have never been yourself. I'll leave it at that. :laugh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billum256
I agree that there are many different forms of Christianity but Catholicism isn't one of them. Catholicism may have been the first organized form of Christianity but that doesn't mean its right. What I'm about to say will definitely make some people mad, but I'm willing to step on a few toes to stand up for my beliefs. Revelation 17 talks about a woman who is worshipped by those who testify to Jesus. The woman is filled with sin and those who worship her will go against Jesus. While it doesn’t state that this is the Catholic Church I believe it to be. This should help in your understanding why I don’t view the Catholic Church as a part of Christianity.
How very Christ like of you to shut out your fellow Christians. (This thing sucks at sarcasm!!) :D:
Do you think that God really wanted his followers to shut out other believers just because the believe in a slightly different manner? You should really evaluate yourself as a Christian. You're doing more shunning than a party full of jocks who happen to see me walking in the room. *bad joke*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billum256
Also I concede that you may have more religious experience then me. You’ve got ten years of life on me and you claim to have study multiple scriptures. I on the other hand don’t intend to just take you on your word of having more knowledge than me. I intend to test you instead. Otherwise how would I know?
Word? Test me? Really? Wanna pull out your spiritual guns and see who's quicker at the draw? WHY??? You're really not doin' so hot in the field of being Christ like. It's "Christians" like you that are the reason I stopped going to church for 12 years! I never turned away from God but I sure as hell turned away from the church because of people who happen to bias opinions based on information that isn't known to be fact. "Oh my GOD! Sprout's playing Magic: The Gathering!! He's in a cult! He's a devil worshipper!!" What I just quoted is a small example of the many horrible things I've heard from people who offer lip service prayers and only try to "preach the word of God" without fully understanding it or wanting to challenge me.
I respectfully refuse your challenge. I don't need to prove myself to you. Only God is my judge and my creator will ensure that I say whatever it is I have to say to you or anyone else on any subject when the time comes.
Until then, peace be with you.
Re: Give marriage rights to gays?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
atomik_sprout :laugh: LMAO!!! Oh, my stomach! So, my friend was tempted to like guys, eh? I'll have to tell him that and see what he has to say about your opinion. In fact, I'll dictate it.
Are you serious??? You can't honestly believe that there's mythical beast of sorts, in this case the devil, that prods you with a pitchfork and says, "Hey, buddy! Go have gay sex right now! I promise it'll be fun!" :laugh: I mean, if that's what you believe, you probably don't really trust science either. In that case, turn off your computer, cell phone and video games, then sell them. I really don't wanna turn this in to a religion vs. science debate.
You know I've been about as respectful as I can considering that we have a major difference in our beliefs. Just though I'd say great job on acting like a 30 year old instead of a child ( I hope you caught that sarcasm). Also believe the devil does exist, God made that pretty clear.
Quote:
It's not about what you did, what you do or where you're going. We're all equal. All men, women, children and... PEOPLE in general! We're no better than that of a drug addict, nor are we better than a homeless person. So, why would you dare assume that a homosexual is any less of a person??? You need to open your mind. The above idea you just expressed is the exact reason why we've had civil rights issues in this country since it was "founded" (stolen is more like it).
If it was what we did with our lives that determined our worth then, we'd all be worth s***! Excuse my language but it's true. What have you done other than be a heterosexual?? Huh? Answer me that? So, you're worth more than another human being? Keep in mind that things of monetary value mean nothing when considering the worth of a fellow human being.
If everyone was equal then we would all make it into heaven wouldn't we? Yet again God made it very clear that this isn't the case.
Quote:
Bull, it wasn't just about domination. There's sculptures from millennia ago that depict the "manliness" of homo-eroticism. You wanna go back in time and dispute that with the people who were actually doin' it, you go ahead.
On another note: Some people still use homosexual sex to prove their "masculinity". You obviously never met anyone from prison or have never been yourself. I'll leave it at that. :laugh:
What about jail rape doesn't scream domination. The whole entire act is to put another person below your or to "dominate" them, and yes I have known people in jail and this is the general consensus.
Quote:
How very Christ like of you to shut out your fellow Christians. (This thing sucks at sarcasm!!) :D:
Do you think that God really wanted his followers to shut out other believers just because the believe in a slightly different manner? You should really evaluate yourself as a Christian. You're doing more shunning than a party full of jocks who happen to see me walking in the room. *bad joke*
Shut out fellow Christians? No, God didn't want that, but he did give us a very clear warning about a church that would look much like the true Church of God. That it's followers would pay worship to a women and that it would spread throughout many nations. Sounds like Catholicism to me.
Quote:
Word? Test me? Really? Wanna pull out your spiritual guns and see who's quicker at the draw? WHY??? You're really not doin' so hot in the field of being Christ like. It's "Christians" like you that are the reason I stopped going to church for 12 years! I never turned away from God but I sure as hell turned away from the church because of people who happen to bias opinions based on information that isn't known to be fact. "Oh my GOD! Sprout's playing Magic: The Gathering!! He's in a cult! He's a devil worshipper!!" What I just quoted is a small example of the many horrible things I've heard from people who offer lip service prayers and only try to "preach the word of God" without fully understanding it or wanting to challenge me.
Funny, one Christian isn't suppose to doubt another Christians Christianity, but from what you've said I don't really know if you consider yourself Christian or not so I'll leave that alone.
Quote:
I respectfully refuse your challenge. I don't need to prove myself to you. Only God is my judge and my creator will ensure that I say whatever it is I have to say to you or anyone else on any subject when the time comes.
Yeah I kinda figured you would. When bluffing its best to just back down instead of speak up and show your ignorance. Oh well. Take care dude.
Re: Give marriage rights to gays?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Billum256 Yeah I kinda figured you would. When bluffing its best to just back down instead of speak up and show your ignorance. Oh well. Take care dude.
Don't get it twisted. I don't bluff. I just don't think I have anything to prove to you. Why should I try to prove to you that I study scripture? Why should I have to prove to you my belief in my creator and my values and morals? I'm not backing down from anything. I just fail to recognize the point of trying to challenge me in a theological argument. Besides, your beliefs tell you to tell other Christians they're wrong apparently. There's no point in trying to talk to a "brick wall".
I'm good with my God. I don't need to prove it to you.
