Manga artist

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Naomi Vaine

well, God KNEW Job wasnt going to give in and he wanted to how the devil that. He knew for a fact. why? because he's an all knowing God. and he let the devil live because if there was no devil, there would be no sin. and no sin would cause everybody to believe in God which would be wrong because he wants us to CHOOSE him. not be comanded to love him. that's a true love. and in the end, he's not going to be killing anyone. nonbelievers will be here on earth while believers will be sen to heaven. after a certin amount of time, all nonbelievers will be sent to hell forever. (if you can grasp "forever") and god will recycle the earth by making it new and letting all the believers who went to heaven with him, live on the new earth. and Christ and God and th Holy Spirit are one. its... like an egg. three parts, The white, The Yolk, and The Shell. you can have a whole if your missing one. Therefore, God, Christ, and the Holy spirit are one. any questions?

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They said, "Sorrow may last though the night, but joy comes with the morning." Well, the mornings came and the mornings went. The sun still rises and the sun still sets... but it's not getting eaiser yet.

Darkened_Star

I was raised by "christians" and had many of these same thoughts that you've stated, manga artist. Even some of the stories and the things the "churches" taught me frustrated me like it seems to be doing you.

I have a few questions for you manga artist...
-Do you believe God and Jesus are one?
-Do you believe in God at all.

My thoughts: These would be things to wonder
-believing they are one: if you think they are two different beings then why does God matter if your faith is in just Jesus alone. So it really shouldn't matter if he's guilty or not because your faith and beliefs lie with Jesus not God.
-believing there is a "God": if you're questioning so much about whether God is guilty or not, I'd asume you have your reasons. But if you no longer believe of or have faith in Him, once again why does it matter whether he's guilty or not.

BTW: You don't have to answer the questions. They are just things to consider and things I thought about.

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aceman67

Just because one sect of christanity belives that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost is one being (a concept that completly baffles me, concidering that the Bible specificly states in John 3:16 that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - King James Version), doesn't mean that all of them do.

Like I've preivously stated in posts: Everything that you've "charged" god with was done by man, not God. In a court of law, a Father (in this case, God), cannot be held accountable for the actions of their children (In this case, Man).

God gave us free will, then stepped aside and let us choose our own fate, only stepping in from time to time to give guidelines to how he wants us to act. What we do from there is up to us.

Yes, God could step in and stop all wars, killings, suffering, illness, and everything that is bad in this world, but then we wouldn't be challenged, and in the end, we wouldn't learn for our selves.

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Descended From Darkness

From what I have gathered, the majority of Christians that I do talk to believe that Jesus is God. In John 1:1 (I believe) Jesus states that he is God (in reality John states that Jesus said he is God though whether he actually stated it is unknown). Just from that verse alone they believe that he is God. Which to me sounds like idoltary.

Anyways throughout history the mass killing done by the Christians were their own fault not God's. God didn't tell them "Hey kill these non-believers for me". They acted on their own free-will. What they thought was if they killed the Pagans, Muslims, what have you, then they were doing the world a favor. When in reality that isn't the case.

The stories of the OT are viewed obsolete according to most Christians. When Jesus came he brought the NT. So the laws, stories, etc are outdated and aren't even looked at by them. Which makes no sense to me.

God isn't the one we should blame for humanity's crimes.

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Thanx zyta for the awesome set
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erosennin

I really have no opinion either way, but something that always struck me about the Job story was that his entire family still dies. After his trials end and everything 'gets batter' his entire family is still dead. When I first heard it way back when as a wee one in bible school it didn't sit well with me, but I couldn't really place why. Among many reasons I now realize, is that the trials treated his wife and children as objects. They were just 'things' in the context of the parable.

In any case, as Lewis Black says, if you have a question about the old testament and its interpretation, ask a Jew. It's kind of their book.

loknkey

One reason God may be evil.....


1) According to the more prominent world religions, God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and creator of all.

2) He created everything knowing exactly what would happen.

3) There is an infinite number of ways God could have constructed the universe. Because he has unlimited power, nothing is impossible.

4)Therefore, everything that happens only happens because God wants it to happen.

5) A huge portion of humanity will suffer eternity in hell, according to the most prominent monotheistic religions.

6) Therefore God created a large portion of humanity, because he wanted them to suffer eternity in hell.

aceman67

Here's where I disagree with you (Since I don't belive in "Hell" as most people know it to be, for an explination on exactly what I belive my afterlife to be, go here: CLICK HERE), People choose to do wrong, they can choose to do right. EVERY thing that happens to them is a result of those choices. You have no one to blame but your self.

And pause for a second, and ask yourself two questions:

What is Good?
And
What is Evil?

The Answer: They are points of view, nothing more. Points of vew are made from sum total of someones experiences and beliefs, and they are mearly opinions on what they think is good or evil. They are in no way a concrete defintion of what things are.

Whats good to someone maybe evil to someone else. My views on the subject differ (And obviously so since i've repeated myself in every post I've made in this thread and no one seems to be grasping the subject that everything that has been pointed out is our own damn fault, not gods) from yours.

Its funny how no one wants to accept responsablity for their actions, even when they know its their fault. I mean, I see this every day when moderating this forum. I give out an infracton for a blatently broken rule, I even quote from the Rules/FAQ to justify my decision to give the infraction, and occationally, I'm nice enough to even give out advice on how to not get in trouble the next time, and what do I get in return? I get PMs and Emails from those people complaining, whining, and some times (rarely), I get responses that are truely untasteful.

And some people wonder why I have "Apathetic Bastard" under my username...

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loknkey

My objection is soley directed towards mainstream Christian/Muslim theology. If your view differs from theirs, then my argument was not intended for you.

I hold myself fully responsible for everything I do within the limits of my capabilities. However, despite my decisions, God knew what I would choose, and he created me anyways.

As to good and evil, I have no reason to think that they are anything more than human inventions. But even so, we can say that God may be evil according to our created standards.

aceman67

All Knowing (Omniscient) doesn't mean that God knows exactly what you're going to do. It means that God knows the out come of every choice, every consiquence ect ect ect.

When you make a choice, you can go in any number of directions, all of which god knows about. Which path you take is up to you.

So again: You have no one to blame but yourself.

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loknkey

He's either all-knowing or he's not. You can't be all knowing and not know something. It's a contradiction. Hence, God knows exactly what I'm going to do.

--MOD EDIT MERGED DOUBLE POST--

I will accept whatever I deserve happily, and I'd have it no other way. I only ask that God be held to the same standards as he holds to us. After all, he created me with some empathy. Empathy is a good thing right? We are supposed to love one another, even love our enemies. What kind a love would it be, if they burn for eternity, while we silently watch from heaven? It is out of this love, commanded by God, that I blame him for his creation.