Hurray for medical Ethics.

KenX · Oct 08, 2007, 11:52 AM

I want to see how this turns out:

Mother seeks girl's womb removal - CNN.com

Quote:

Mother seeks girl's womb removal

LONDON, England -- A mother is seeking to have the womb of her severely disabled daughter removed to prevent the 15-year-old from feeling the pain and discomfort of menstruation.

Doctors in Britain are now taking legal advice to see if they are permitted to carry out the hysterectomy on Katie Thorpe, who suffers from cerebral palsy.

But a charity campaigning for the disabled said on Monday the move could infringe human rights and would set a "disturbing precedent."

Andy Rickell, executive director of disability charity Scope, told the Press Association: "It is very difficult to see how this kind of invasive surgery, which is not medically necessary and which will be very painful and traumatic, can be in Katie's best interests.

"This case raises fundamental ethical issues about the way our society treats disabled people and the respect we have for disabled people's human and reproductive rights.

"If this enforced sterilization is approved, it will have disturbing implications for young disabled girls across Britain."

Katie's mother Alison Thorpe, who lives in Billericay, southern England, said the operation was in her daughter's best interests.

"First of all, this is not about me. If it was about me, I would have given up caring for Katie a long, long while ago," she told GMTV.

"It is about quality of life and for Katie to not have the associated problems of menstruation adds to her quality of life. It means she can continue with the quality of life we can give her now.

"Katie wouldn't understand menstruation at all. She has no comprehension about what will be happening to her body. All she would feel is the discomfort, the stomach cramps and the headaches, the mood swings, the tears, and wonder what is going on."

Thorpe said an operation would be best for Katie, despite the initial pain it would cause.

She added: "The short-term pain and discomfort we can manage with painkillers. We will be able to manage that pain much better than menstruation once a month, when Katie cannot tell us 'I'm in pain.'"

A couple of questions to consider:

1. Should the girl's mother have the right to make that decision?

2. If she does, is womb removal in the girl's best interests?

Hassun · Oct 08, 2007, 12:02 PM

WTF, KenX! We thought you OD'd.

Yes the mother still has that right.

KenX · Oct 08, 2007, 12:09 PM

I did, OVER 9000 times. What's up with you man? Shit i don't want to turn this into a chit chat thread since this is vury serius business. I'll make a newbie thread or something.

But anyway, I understand the child with the cerebral palsey (which is serious) getting a hysterictamy and all, but really shouldn't that be a choice of who ever is getting it? This does means no children and all that.

Hassun · Oct 08, 2007, 12:18 PM

What bothers me about it is this part:

Quote:

If it was about me, I would have given up caring for Katie a long, long while ago," she told GMTV.

...

"Katie wouldn't understand menstruation at all. She has no comprehension about what will be happening to her body. All she would feel is the discomfort, the stomach cramps and the headaches, the mood swings, the tears, and wonder what is going on."

This doesn't really sound like caring mother behaviour at all.
I thought Cerebral palsy was a disease of the body, not the mind? How exactly would she not understand menstruation?

*atomik_sprout* · Oct 08, 2007, 01:24 PM

It's not the parent's right to remove the womb from thier daugher! Cerebal palsy is a physical affliction, if the girl wants to menstrate, let her! That would be like my mom having a doctor cut my penis off so I wouldn't have wet dreams!!!

*Arrianna* · Oct 08, 2007, 02:30 PM

This isn't new. From what I have read before the mother went to two doctors who agreed that it was in the girls best interest. Evidently the young woman is also mentally incapacitated and incapable of making a legal decision. If she was the surgery wouldn't be needed.

I am of two minds on it. I have been to group homes for mentally retarded people and the people who work with them have told me more then once that their biggest problem is non-mentally retarded people seducing them. They are children mentally and they don't even understand what they are doing let alone why they shouldn't. I can understand how something like that could be a blessing. My concern is simply where you draw the line though.

Hassun · Oct 08, 2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrianna

This isn't new. From what I have read before the mother went to two doctors who agreed that it was in the girls best interest. Evidently the young woman is also mentally incapacitated and incapable of making a legal decision. If she was the surgery wouldn't be needed.

I am of two minds on it. I have been to group homes for mentally retarded people and the people who work with them have told me more then once that their biggest problem is non-mentally retarded people seducing them. They are children mentally and they don't even understand what they are doing let alone why they shouldn't. I can understand how something like that could be a blessing. My concern is simply where you draw the line though.

it's just a shame that there isn't really any indication in the article about the girl's mental capacity except the mother saying she wouldn't understand.

*Abu Dhabi* · Oct 08, 2007, 03:48 PM

i think it's plain out wrong, i was on the fence for a long time...

but what tipped me over is that the families who are asking for operations are ones who no longer want to care about their child, but don't want to kill them "because they still love them" if it was the girl's best interest, then wouldn't she have to understand what's going on in order to form an opinion?

personally, i think it's the mother's best interest of not dealing with her kid anymore...

aceman67 · Oct 08, 2007, 05:21 PM

After Dating someone with CP (A very mild form that left her with limited control of her Legs leaving her in a wheelchair), I researched it, and the more severe forms of it leave the person with the mental faculties of a 3 or 4 year old (or younger, and from what I got from the article, this is the case here) coupled with extreme physical disabilities (Paraplegic and Quadriplegic are quite common, even Total or Partial paralysis is possible). The child will almost defenently be cared for by her mother for her entire life, and won't be having children, and if she had the ability to make that choice, her mother wouldn't be seeking to have this done because her daughter would understand what was happening to her body.

I think its the mothers choice.

And another thing, I don't think the mother is thinking about the other side effect of a Hysterectomy: Early Menopause.

gren · Oct 08, 2007, 06:06 PM

Wouldn't it be easier and far less invasive to give the girl a low-dose contraceptive in a way that would limit her periods to only a few a year? As aceman pointed out, a full hysterectomy isn't without it's consequences. And from what I've read, a lot of doctors are advising against hysterectomies in all but the most extreme cases, where there is no other option (for example, uterine or cervical cancer). I think the mother should look at all other possible options before jumping right to a hysterectomy.

Quote:

"Katie wouldn't understand menstruation at all. She has no comprehension about what will be happening to her body. All she would feel is the discomfort, the stomach cramps and the headaches, the mood swings, the tears, and wonder what is going on."

So...she would understand a surgical procedure, with all of the possible side effects and complications? This statement doesn't really make her case.

Miroku4444 · Oct 09, 2007, 08:42 AM

If the mother is truly look at her daughters best interest she should have looked at other options first and used this as a last resort. I also think the mother is being selfish, but she is in her right seeing her daughter is incapable of making decisions for herself.

Oct 08, 2007, 12:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
Hassun shittle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Pretiacruento Posts: 7,021 Thanks: 0 Thanked 38 Times in 33 Posts Credits: 24,520	Re: Hurray for medical Ethics. WTF, KenX! We thought you OD'd. Yes the mother still has that right. __________________ Gorecreeps inc.
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Oct 08, 2007, 12:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
KenX As Seen on Internet Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 838 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts Credits: 1,441	Re: Hurray for medical Ethics. I did, OVER 9000 times. What's up with you man? Shit i don't want to turn this into a chit chat thread since this is vury serius business. I'll make a newbie thread or something. But anyway, I understand the child with the cerebral palsey (which is serious) getting a hysterictamy and all, but really shouldn't that be a choice of who ever is getting it? This does means no children and all that. __________________ Jimi Hendrix, are you experienced?
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Oct 08, 2007, 01:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
atomik_sprout CHUCK NORRIS!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 2,087 Thanks: 55 Thanked 69 Times in 64 Posts Credits: 110,749	Re: Hurray for medical Ethics. It's not the parent's right to remove the womb from thier daugher! Cerebal palsy is a physical affliction, if the girl wants to menstrate, let her! That would be like my mom having a doctor cut my penis off so I wouldn't have wet dreams!!! __________________ http://www.myspace.com/boondocksamurai
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Oct 08, 2007, 02:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
Arrianna Lady Barronmore Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,012 Thanks: 8 Thanked 34 Times in 31 Posts Credits: 37,819	Re: Hurray for medical Ethics. This isn't new. From what I have read before the mother went to two doctors who agreed that it was in the girls best interest. Evidently the young woman is also mentally incapacitated and incapable of making a legal decision. If she was the surgery wouldn't be needed. I am of two minds on it. I have been to group homes for mentally retarded people and the people who work with them have told me more then once that their biggest problem is non-mentally retarded people seducing them. They are children mentally and they don't even understand what they are doing let alone why they shouldn't. I can understand how something like that could be a blessing. My concern is simply where you draw the line though. __________________ l Stone Hold l Now We're Cooking! l
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Oct 08, 2007, 03:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
Abu Dhabi Spoken for. Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Neither here... nor there. Posts: 1,510 Thanks: 12 Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts Credits: 6,821	Re: Hurray for medical Ethics. i think it's plain out wrong, i was on the fence for a long time... but what tipped me over is that the families who are asking for operations are ones who no longer want to care about their child, but don't want to kill them "because they still love them" if it was the girl's best interest, then wouldn't she have to understand what's going on in order to form an opinion? personally, i think it's the mother's best interest of not dealing with her kid anymore... __________________ great day! . . .
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Oct 08, 2007, 05:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
aceman67 Apathetic Bastard Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Coalhurst Alberta, Canada Posts: 1,790 Thanks: 5 Thanked 36 Times in 31 Posts Credits: 32,112	Re: Hurray for medical Ethics. After Dating someone with CP (A very mild form that left her with limited control of her Legs leaving her in a wheelchair), I researched it, and the more severe forms of it leave the person with the mental faculties of a 3 or 4 year old (or younger, and from what I got from the article, this is the case here) coupled with extreme physical disabilities (Paraplegic and Quadriplegic are quite common, even Total or Partial paralysis is possible). The child will almost defenently be cared for by her mother for her entire life, and won't be having children, and if she had the ability to make that choice, her mother wouldn't be seeking to have this done because her daughter would understand what was happening to her body. I think its the mothers choice. And another thing, I don't think the mother is thinking about the other side effect of a Hysterectomy: Early Menopause. __________________ Please, in the name of all that is holy and good, Raptor Jesus, Read the RULES. I think; therefore you are : Xfire : Art Portfolio : DevART : AnimePaper : SheezyART : Outpost10F :
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Oct 09, 2007, 08:42 AM	#11 (permalink)
Miroku4444 Tournaments Won: 3 Ecchi Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 3,226 Thanks: 2 Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts Credits: 13,747	Re: Hurray for medical Ethics. If the mother is truly look at her daughters best interest she should have looked at other options first and used this as a last resort. I also think the mother is being selfish, but she is in her right seeing her daughter is incapable of making decisions for herself. __________________ "You'll hunt me. You'll condemn me, you'll set the dogs on me. But that's what has to happen."
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