abby724

Illegal immigrants in America... I've held a certain opinion for a while... That if all the Mexican immigrants who come here "illegally" aren't citizens, then neither should all the settlers who came here overseas and encroached land already settled by Native Americans... Not only that, but the settlers also spread disease, caused the downfall of many ancient civilizations, committed mass genocide, obliterated many cultures, displaced whole populations, etc. By modern standards, and/or compared to illegal immigrants from mexico, settlers should be outright considered senseless, barbaric invaders. It's only by doing all this have they risen up to the top of the social class, attaining enough power to consider themselves the "American citizen".

I hold sympathy for the illegal immigrants coming in here because of how impoverished they were in their homeland. Everyone wants a better life for themselves and their children, but not everyone is going to be able to afford one, perhaps ever in their entire lives if they don't get involved with drug trafficking and the like. And becoming a citizen, getting your VISA and all that, very expensive, and an extremely long process... It's not uncommon to see one's approval date being pushed back a year or more or so because of backlog and a few mistakes.

Take care of them? Don't they take care of us? If I'm not mistaken, a large majority of the people working fields and crops are illegal immigrants... And same with all those nice gardeners working in the schools, gated neighborhoods, and whatnot. Or maybe that's just here in California.

If all the illegal immigrants in the nation were suddenly deported back to where they came from, I can imagine our economy being hit very badly...

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ketaro

If we all want illegal immigrants to stop coming to America we have to stop big companies from hiring them. If you stop them then illegal immigrants wont have a reason to come to the country in the first place.

Arrianna

By modern standards... you fail to realize that until the US Mexico war that WAS the standard MO INCLUDING among the native Americans. Someone has resources you want, you move in and take it if you can. Until the Treaty with Mexico there was never a case of someone giving land back after a war was over. The US is unique in that standard that they created. War takes two sides, they weren't just invaded the natives did plenty of their own invading as well, they just lost. The only crime involved is in how they were treated after they lost.

ALL OF WHICH IS MEANINGLESS TO THE SUBJECT! Since, and I will say it again, Mexico isn't a native country but one imposed by Spain. To try and excuse the breaking of the laws by current illegal immigrants sneaking into a foreign country by insulting those long dead who founded the US proves nothing. As for the economy from their labor it does not excuse the damage they are doing to that same economy with the crime and drain on the resources they create. atomik_sprout and ABG's analogy is perfectly correct of walking into someones house and demanding that they take care of you.

May I also point out that a big deal has been made about how long it takes to get citizenship.... so what? That is why we have working visas. They are supposed to prove by hard work and years of being a law abiding citizen that they are serious. Can you even imagine the damage that could be done to national security if there was a fast track to citizenship where anyone with the $$$ could disappear into the masses within a year?

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abby724

Mexico a native country? Huh? I never said I thought of Mexico like that.

Wow, I guess you guys beat me at this topic. Maybe I sympathized with illegal immigrants too much? Coming from an impoverished country myself actually did something bad for me. :laughs: And if you're wondering, I came here legally...

You really did put up some good points here, with that national security thing being one of the best...

Still, one can't deny the fact that most people don't like living in impoverished countries. I'm not using this an excuse [to immigrate illegally], before anyone starts berating me.

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Joe Mage

I couldn' have said it better myself, Arrianna, the fact is that you can' really compare today's standards to those of the past, 'cause they are completely different time periods. The social, economical, political standards were all completely different back during those times and back then America didn' hold the monopoly on invasions, war, immigration policies,etc. All of these things were more commonplace pratices amongst many countries back then than today. Has every1 forgotten the Napoleonic wars that took place back then? I wonder how many attrocities were committed durin' England's invasion of Scotland? In this day and age, we've had the luxury of reflectin' on the past in an effort ta learn from it, not ta berate it.

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atomik_sprout

I'M TOTALLY DISAGREEING WITH THAT STATEMENT.

Here's why:

Here in Minnesota, there are practically NO--Zero, zilch, nada--jobs open in the employment market. When I lost my last job, it took me three months to be re-employed somewhere. My roomate has been looking for work since he left his last job two years ago! The unemployment rate here escalates and nobody knows why. I can imagine that other various states are being hit with the same problem.

I'm willing to bet a ludicrous amount of mony that if we deported every illegal immigrant from this country--be they Mexican, Black, White, Asian--at the same time, we'd have a multitude of jobs open in our country, which in turn, would put some ease in the minds of our fellow citizens and create more opportunity for the people who really need it. Our economy would either stay the same, or get better, but worse is not an option when there are thousands--maybe even MILLIONS--in this country who are looking for a good honest buck!

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Redragon495

I personally think that Illegal Immigrants are bad okay. The reason I think this is b\c why not just try to get a green card instead of sneaking over here illegally. But I think that we should put more guards up along the border and just give green cards to all the Illegal Immigrants who are here already.

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tsurara

The issue wasn't the length of time so much as the paperwork, education and sheer amount of support and money the process requires:

1) Many of the people coming in illegally CAN'T get work visas because they are not trained... nor do they have the means or connections to secure employment before leaving the country. Work visas aren't awarded ~to find~ a job... they're given to those who already have jobs lined up.

2) Most immigrants (legal or illegal) do not speak English perfectly (or anywhere near it), nor do most of their families speak English at all -- meaning many of them can't even understand the forms to fill out, much less pass an English language interview exam, history exam, driver's liscence test, etc. Even if they do, their families won't be able to speak English.

I've studied Japanese for 7 years, Japanese history for 4... and I'm University-Educated AND have lived abroad: I'm still not fluent enough to pass even a Junior Highschool level history exam in the language. I guess that makes me a bit more sympathetic.

Is it realistic to expect an immigrant to be fluent in English? Especially when so many LEGAL immigrants (here by virtue of birth or family-deals) do not.

3) The interviews are in big cities, often far from where the immigrant in question is working or living. Travel is not provided, lodging is not provided, nor is the cost recompensated in any way.

4) Marrying someone you love without first knowing that they will be allowed to stay in the same country with you is pretty awful. Much less having children with that person and then having them sent back on a technicality. It's a big stress on a relationship... that's for sure.

Yes, my stepfather was qualified to do all of this and he worked hard to accomplish it. He's certainly proud to have done it "the right way". But most those entering the country illegally have no legal alternative. They ~can't~ enter the country legally with their current ability and financial situation. They ~don't~ speak English, their families don't speak English, they aren't trained in American history, they haven't got vehicles or the money to travel, they can't get companies to sponsor them for work visas...

Essentially, we have "legally" closed the country to all but those wealthy enough to afford the education designed to make them middle-class citizens before they even enter the country. Those aren't "your hungry, your poor, your huddled masses longing to be free"... are they?

Nor are those people the ones we currently need most in the "cheap" employment sector.

Meanwhile the reality is that we're leaking from every single border, extremely suceptable to illegal immigration (which is often aided by internal corruption in the law-enforcement and business sectors). Even more people enter legitimately then simply stop showing up to the interviews...

Seems a contradiction of ideals and reality--

Either the reality needs to change... or the ideals do.

My great great grandparents were poor Irish immigrants who lived in tenement housing, my stepmother is a first gen Argentinian immigrant, my stepfather is a 1st gen Chinese immigrant, my boyfriend is Japanese and I'm living in a culture/country that isn't my own (on a work-visa). Maybe that gives me a bit more sympathy for the process?

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Abu Dhabi

personally, i think that worker visas would turn out quite nicely. they last for a coupe years and provide enough coverage for someone who just wants to work here and plans to go back to their home country eventually. i think it's unfair to keep out certain people just becuz we don't like the look of them. lots of the people coming over the border are sending at least $350 a week back to their families, and i think it's wrong on more then one level to do that...

and besides, illegal immigrants don't eat up social costs like medicare and stuff becuz they never go to the hospital! most are too scared that they'll have to show proof of citizenship to get care, so they just walk it off or go to a small clinic that they pay for anyway.

don't like it? move to Canada!

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NevesElocin

To me I feel that we should leave the poor people alone. They have it hard enough as it is. They wouldn't come here if they didn't need help. Help them instead of giving them grief for being from whatever country they were originally from.

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!Mini Dev

Yes true but if you said that to all of them they would all come in and the work would get to crouded and during this day and age the entirety of America would become of poverty which would be hard ot imagine. Work is slim for the USA allready so if we let Mexicans into America they want a hceap wage so all American workers will be kicked out and have no jobs and Mexico will take all thats not theirs, so i like it how it's going at the moment leaving it, some get through, some get caught. It's a risky give or take situation so just leave it alone. But yes if the world was larger i would like what you were saying to become true.