All I'm saying with that example is that the Israeli offensives have never been known to be very precise even though they should be very capable of making it so. Just this week I read a report that people are still busy clearing out cluster ammunition in the south of Lebanon.
Why do you keep pointing to the neighboring Muslim countries? Just because the dominant religion in those countries is the same it doesn't mean anything more than that. Countries aren't suddenly best buddies because of that. Hamas isn't very well liked in the surrounding countries at all. Egypt in particular is weary of them, mostly because they fear Hamas might influence and radicalize Egyptians.Since I am responding I would also like to comment on your earlier statement about Israel shutting Gaza off from everyone. Israel only shares one border with Gaza, Gaza also neighbors Egypt doesn't it? Yet last I heard that very Arabic/Muslim state had also closed its borders with Gaza because of the dangers there. Seems to me the problem with Gaza's isolation is Gaza itself.
I'm not talking about surgical strikes in the sense of long range attacks (though they surely can be used and are being used). I mentioned specialised forces. That also entails commando troops and whatnot.Secondly your surgical, strategic strikes you want don't work if you need to go in and close up the afore mentioned tunnels being used to supply them with weapons do they? Sometimes you simply have to have people there on the ground to get the job done.
Not to mention you don't need a big offensive to close down tunnels.
I bet it's a whole lot less obvious to the average Joe actually living there Arrianna. I have little doubt that getting rid of Hamas is exactly what Israel is trying to do, but I don't think they're being very successful at doing it.Broad military action or not they have made it very clear they are specifically after Hamas and while we are seeing calls for reprisals by the Islamic Jihadists and Al Quada we are not seeing similar reactions from the other Palestinian political parties from with Hamas wrested control of Gaza 2 years previously. The battle is Israel vs Hamas not Palestine as is obvious to anyone who bothers to actually read the facts.
And it's pretty likely that's exactly what's going to happen. Just as it has happened many times before. I hope you're not thinking I'm supporting Hamas or anything like that. I just seriously question Israel's strategy in all of this. They already knew from previous experiences and common sense that other countries were going to start mounting the pressure on them to establish a truce. So in that sense they had to know their objectives were doomed from the start right?Your prediction is as valid as anyone's but if it does end up being useless it will be because they are pressured/talked into withdrawing without accomplishing their objectives.
You seem to think it's a bad thing but that what organizations like the UN and a country like the USA in particular do. But that's what they do. Meddle with foreign affairs. For noble and a whole lot less noble reasons I'm sure. But that's how it is. And in a rapidly globalizing world. That isn't going to change.
Let's look at it from an even darker angle for a minute. The next elections in Israel are in February. The opposition party Likud is doing better than the Kadima party in the polls. Maybe the timing of the offensive is related to that? A quick success would surely earn some extra votes wouldn't it?
That was not about you as a person, it was my reply to your explanation of the situation. Are you denying that it was one-sided? You basically said Israel had done absolutely nothing wrong and that they were the poor victims of a terrorist group and are only trying to defend themselves.Originally Posted by Scourge
That is, in all honesty, a very one-sided look on the situation.
Why doesn't my prediction make sense? The same scenario has happened before. The superpowers of the world simply won't let them have their way.Secondly I am not mad but shocked that you would predict/think that as it makes no sense what so ever as Israel has never made any action that could possibly bring about such a thought (Even a prediction is a thought process as I am sure you are aware of) my tone was that of surprise, not anger and I will admit that I was out of line and there for apologies.
Aaah, I'm happy to finally get some of that material you were talking about. (Although I'm not too sure about how unbiased and objective that site and material is. <_<)Here is another tidbit then that I hope will prove what I have been saying.
NAZI ROOTS OF PALESTINIAN NATIONALISM
But it mostly says that certain people from North Africa and the Middle East collaborated with the Germans. Which isn't such a strange thing as people from all over the world did that. And what's a better chance of getting rid of a longstanding rival than supporting another group who's rapidly gaining power and wants to get rid of them too? Like I mentioned earlier. Antisemitism has existed for a very long time.
The bottom line of what I wanted to show you is that saying something like "Palestinians have always persecuted the Jews and actually strongly supported Hitler" is a gross generalization. It would be the same as saying "Every German was/is a Nazi." or "Every Palestinian is a member and supporter of Hamas." or "All black people are thieves." etc. etc.
TaurusDemon23 makes some valid points in my opinion. The way both parties are acting now will only drag them further down a downward spiral of violence.
Oh and about the endangered species idea: I think measures like that have been made for certain tribes in the South American rainforest.
Scourge (Jan 20, 2009)
Not to reply to every single paragraph again (it's making posts far too long) I'll just make one global reply.
Let's just see how the situation will unfold and if the attacks by Hamas have truly stopped for good. (That line about how they expect them to 'behave' was hilarious. )
I'll leave the purpose, use and history of the UN undiscussed. It would lead us too far from the topic at hand.
As for the Nazi related article. I hope you're not trying to find specific Arab-related faults in such a thing. The list of collaborating areas and people of high (political) standing during WWII is very long AND diverse.
I don't understand much of the part about how you try to take religion/Zionism out of the equation though. Is what you're saying something like "since everyone's picking on Israel and their religion I'll just see all the Arabian countries around it as one big pile of Jew-hating Muslims who all band together"?
I've heard of "The Protocols",though I've never read it myself. I do understand it to be a hoax though.Still, It's a classic of anti-mason, Jew-haters everywhere.
And for the record, I'm against any sort of tyranny that hinders humanity's soul and makes the world a shittier place for everyone else.
Funny thing is, there's too many that want to be in charge of everything and everyone. Too many think they are better than everyone else and are "meant to rule".
To all who have this mindset: Give it a ****ing rest already, dammit! No one will ever be powerful enough to truly conquer the entire world. Whatever strange force that works behind the scenes here has never allowed it, and never will. God, Providence, Karma, The Weirdness, The Collective Spirit Of The World.........Whatever it is just isn't having it.
Peace to anyone who seeks it, no matter what color, creed, or sexual orientation they belong to. I toke my bowl of herbs in this spirit.
Anyways, back on topic. I look forward to seeing how "Attempt # Umpteen for Peace in the Middle East" will go. Will it be an actual breakthrough, or will it just be another failure? I almost want to start a betting pool on it. Almost, lol.
Middle East peace cannot be possible as long as your western media propagates outright lies such as these:
Do not believe these lies. They only wish to make Arabs look bad.
*shrug* What's funny is that the "Nazi" salute was a roman salute in the first place. The Nazis were an attempt at a remake of Rome, or at least a Germanic Rome.....
"The Protocols" was a strange bastardization of an old, early 1800's commentary on Napoleon's megalomania. It was rewrote by people until it took it's current, freemason-hating, jew-baiting form.
It's kind of like the Bible, or the Koran, or any other holy book for that matter. Edited and edited until it says what their editors wanted them to, though completely unrecognizable to what was wrote in the first place.
It's all lame propaganda to me.