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Thread: To live without lies?

  1. #17
    Newbie zefielyn is off to a good start
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    Re: To live without lies?

    I'm not sure I agree with you, Arrianna. Deception has its affects on the person being deceived, so thus even if a lie isn't told and the person still comes to a different conclusion that the truth, I'd still call it deception even if you weren't intending to. I realize that this holds the speaker to a much higher standard than the listener.

    If you were to say 'How are you, zef?' and I would automatically reply 'Fine' even though I may have gangrene of the left pinky toe, I'd name that deceit without intention.
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  2. #18
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: To live without lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by zefielyn View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with you, Arrianna. Deception has its affects on the person being deceived, so thus even if a lie isn't told and the person still comes to a different conclusion that the truth, I'd still call it deception even if you weren't intending to. I realize that this holds the speaker to a much higher standard than the listener.
    We are not responsible for other peoples actions, choices or thoughts. If you say or don't say something with no intention to deceive and another person comes to an incorrect conclusion the responsibility for their being wrong is theirs not yours. That's another misconception in our society, that somehow we are responsible for others actions even through no action or choice of our own. Not only are we not until we start holding people accountable for their own mistakes they are unlikely to learn responsibility or have cause to learn to make correct judgments for themselves.

    The key word there is action. If you look up the definition of deception it has words like "use" and "action". In other words deception is a deliberate choice not a unintended consequence. Someone can be mistaken unintentionally but not deceived unintentionally.

    Quote Originally Posted by zefielyn View Post
    If you were to say 'How are you, zef?' and I would automatically reply 'Fine' even though I may have gangrene of the left pinky toe, I'd name that deceit without intention.
    On the contrary in our society and in it's context there is no deception. Everyone knows that it is no more then a greeting and has no actual bearing on how you are really doing. It's like saying "good morning" even if it is evening or you are having a bad day. You have to take some phrases (or words) in a cultural context especially since they change over time. In the case of "fine" there are over 20 different meanings. The fact it is also a habitory response (one synonomous with "OK"- satisfactory, acceptable, managing adequately, unexceptional, unremarkable, tolerable, or under control) to a habitory greeting is hardly important.



    de⋅ceit
    –noun
    1. the act or practice of deceiving; concealment or distortion of the truth for the purpose of misleading; duplicity; fraud; cheating: Once she exposed their deceit, no one ever trusted them again.
    2. an act or device intended to deceive; trick; stratagem.
    3. the quality of being deceitful; duplicity; falseness: a man full of deceit.

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  3. #19
    Newbie zefielyn is off to a good start
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    Re: To live without lies?

    A very well-formed argument.

    To be clear, I wasn't trying to imply that a speaker is completely responsible for what the listener understands, just that the interaction between people doesn't end when words leave the speaker's lips, that there is more to a conversation than one speaking and one understanding, that it is a shared burden in talking.

    I concede that the definition you provided demonstrates one must have the intention to deceive. I'd like to add that definition 3 uses 'falseness,' which could add to confusion.

    Anyway, the imprecision of the English language has left a hole in my argument (darn English), and I have hijacked the board for far too long. It's too bad the imprecision of MY English language allowed this conversation at all, because I should have said 'To live with only truth, or full disclosure, etc.' to make a better discussion.

    You might say I deceived you, but without intention, haha.
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  4. #20
    Otaku DemonicKagomeTahoshi is off to a good start DemonicKagomeTahoshi's Avatar
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    Re: To live without lies?

    Me i would like to live without lies, so i don't get in trouble as much, other than that, i wouldn't want to live without lies, because it actually sometimes protects you and someone else, if you don't want to hurt their feelings.

  5. #21
    Otaku Frisbee Throwing Champion, Yeti 1 Greece Champion Billum256 is off to a good start Billum256's Avatar
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    Re: To live without lies?

    Living without lies isn't as hard as people make it out to be. Its as simple as being blunt. I know sometimes I may annoy people with being truthful, but thats just how I've been for about 2 or 3 years now. When it comes to someone asking something to personal it as simple as "I don't have to tell you." If something is private then its not lying if you don't tell them. Your just not giving them the information.
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  6. #22
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: To live without lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by zefielyn View Post
    It's too bad the imprecision of MY English language allowed this conversation at all, because I should have said 'To live with only truth, or full disclosure, etc.' to make a better discussion.

    You might say I deceived you, but without intention, haha.
    Actually I would say your explanation was imprecise and possibly misleading.

    The English language is actually quite beautiful when used correctly, to bad so many people don't take the time to learn it better.


    PS. "Only truth" and "full disclosure" is not the same thing either. Really, do you want someone shouting about their hemorrhoids from the tops of the buildings? ick

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    Newbie zman786 is off to a good start
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    Re: To live without lies?

    the world might be better of without lies but the way i see it, no one can live without telling a lie, i think its part of human nature

  8. #24
    Wilde Beast GiG Racer Champion EmoNightmareRose may be famous one day EmoNightmareRose's Avatar
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    Re: To live without lies?

    sadly,sometimes a lie can cause world peace. and cause your girlfriend not to hate you. and make sure you dont kill your purple linx tiger.

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