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Thread: Long-term cannabis use can double risk of psychosis

  1. #9
    Femmebot Rehab Colt Crouse Champion, Bookworm Champion, Hangman Champion, Connect 2 Champion Peach_follows has become well known Peach_follows has become well known Peach_follows has become well known Peach_follows's Avatar
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    Re: Long-term cannabis use can double risk of psychosis

    **Note, you do not have to read any of my sources to get the gist of my rant.. As I have condensed the focal points for you.***

    It's frustrating when people get their hands on a study (or two or three) and think that because it shows some result... that it must be some set in stone fact.

    I'm not going to argue against what your information says. Even though it would be easy to just throw out a counter source. Study Debunks Claim That Pot Smoking Causes Mental Illness | NORML Blog, Marijuana Law Reform

    What I will challenge facts of this or any other study for that matter. Facts are like... 1+1=2. Something inarguable. Studies of this nature... no matter how convincing.. Can never give you factual results.

    Long-term cannabis use can double risk of psychosis | Reuters
    Notice their choice of language.."can"... Not "does"... They know better than to raise this study as "fact". So should you. And I know you didn't claim this to be fact. But, be careful how you present the reliability of your information. Anything that isn't fact is highly susceptible to biases.

    You first have to take in consideration the population being studied.

    Marijuana has been known as a "gateway" drug for the longest time. But, in reality... there is no substantial evidence the the drug can chemically cause a person to go on to other (harder) drugs. The fact of the matter... is that the type of personality; say someone who starts smoking pot in their mid- to late teens; who obviously has some rebellious streak in them to partake in an illegal substance... Might also be the same type of personality who would consider venturing further down the path of illegal drug use. This isn't marijuana's fault... but rather the ridiculous politics surrounding it.

    A similar argument could be said for the findings in the study you've supplied us with.

    Lets first breakdown this study to the bare bones shall we?

    Psychotic.

    Psychosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This word alone fights fist to fist with facts. You can factually know a person who has been found clinically psychotic. But, despite these findings being based on criteria... they are still based on a clinician's observation. In many circumstances that observation is based more on opinion than fact.

    I had a psychiatrist diagnose me with bipolar disorder once. I told him I felt a sense of "euphoria" during my senior year in high school. Mind you, I wasn't manic. Just extremely pleased with myself. I had lost over 150 pounds of useless fat. And was doing exactly what I felt like I should have been doing with my life at that age (Which was attending a high school I worked hard to be accepted into). To me, it was a simple choice of words. To him... it was a criteria I was meeting. "Euphoria....check".

    Fact: I have been diagnosed with bipolar. Fact: its been ruled out by another psychiatrist. Fact: I do not have bipolar disorder.

    Does your study leave room for misdiagnoses?

    However, many people have unusual and unshared (distinct) experiences of what they perceive to be different realities without fitting the clinical definition of psychosis. For example, many people in the general population have experienced hallucinations related to religious or paranormal experience.[1][2] As a result, it has been argued that psychosis is simply an extreme state of consciousness that falls beyond the norms experienced by most.[3] In this view, people who are clinically found to be psychotic may simply be having particularly intense or distressing experiences
    *taken from that wikipedia article above.

    Now... Your study follows young people into adulthood with their marijuana use (over 6 six years), which means. The study began with teens right?

    Teenage Depression Statistics - Teen Depression

    In the source above, it states that
    Dysthymia, a type of mild, long-lasting depression, affects about 2 percent of teens, and about the same percentage of teens develop bipolar disorder in their late teenage years. 15 percent of teens with depression eventually develop bipolar disorder.
    The reason I bring this up is because of another source:
    Psychotic Features of Bipolar Disorder

    Now, that's basically just a rundown of how symptoms of a certain common mental illness (bipolar), are also symptoms of "PSYCHOSIS" Ooooh sounds so big and scary doesn't it?

    Now here's another source (since you are obviously a fan of sources for information)
    MJageSMI: Age of first use of marijuana and past year serious mental illness (SMI), SAMHSA,Office of Applied Studies

    This SAMHSA article says
    * About 12.5 % of persons aged 18 or older who reported lifetime marijuana use were classified as having a serious mental illness (SMI) in the past year.

    * Adults who first used marijuana before age 12 (21%) were twice as likely as adults who first used marijuana at age 18 or older (10.5%) to be classified as having a serious mental illness in the past year.
    Synopsis? A bunch of people who smoke pot are mentally ill. Several symptoms of several mental illness can be deemed "psychotic".

    The real question is... what came first... The chicken or the egg?

    I was diagnosed with Major Depressive disorder and ADD at the age of 14. This is also the age I began smoking pot heavily. Two words. SELF MEDICATION! And Im not the only one...

    Another source?
    Treatment of bipolar disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Click that link.
    Scroll down a bit.
    And you'll see "cannabinoids" as a treatment. A debatable treatment. But that's not what I'm arguing here. Just that..... is it possible that these psychotic tendencies weren't already probable in these people BEFORE their marijuana use? Most people don't self medicate when there isn't a need ya know? And I think self medicating is one of the more common reasons for people to began using.

    If I haven't exhausted you enough... let me just leave you with this. You think that some psychotic tendencies are a huge issue? Maybe its silly... self medicating with something that could cause some psychotic effects?

    TRY LOOKING UP THE SIDE EFFECTS OF THE PHARMACEUTICALS USED TO LEGALLY TREAT PSYCHOTIC TRAITS AND OTHER MENTAL ILLNESSES.

    (I capped that, not to yell, but because if its the only thing you read.. I hope its that)

    I think you'll find hallucinating and such to be the lesser effects. Much more serious things could happen if you took a prescription drug for a mental illness.
    Last edited by Peach_follows; Mar 14, 2010 at 04:22 PM. Reason: your, you're, there, they're, their?
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    Re: Long-term cannabis use can double risk of psychosis

    Good point Peach Follows, but you know, it can't be as addictive as regular legal cigarettes.

  3. #11
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    Re: Long-term cannabis use can double risk of psychosis

    Quote Originally Posted by Peach_follows View Post
    **Note, you do not have to read any of my sources to get the gist of my rant.. As I have condensed the focal points for you.***
    No, but it would help if you actually read and paid attention to the article I posted before attempting to refute it. Several of the "assumptions" you made were addressed directly in the text. For example:

    John McGrath of the Queensland Brain Institute in Australia studied more than 3,801 men and women born between 1981 and 1984 and followed them up after 21 years to ask about their cannabis use and assessed them for psychotic episodes. Around 18 percent reported using cannabis for three or fewer years, 16 percent for four to five years and 14 percent for six or more years.
    As part of his study, McGrath and his team looked at links between cannabis use and psychotic symptoms among a group of 228 sibling pairs and found the association still held. This suggests other influences like genes or the environment were less likely to be responsible for the psychosis, they said.
    No they were not teens when they interviewed them, it was a long term study, it was more recent then your other links, your link that supposedly disproved it was from an op ed on a biased site quoting a study that itself only checked a 10 year period, there is a built in control group for comparison, they themselves said more study was needed on the subject.

    How are you going to break the study down to it's bare bones if you haven'e even paid attention to the bulletin points? Maybe instead of casting stones at people who don't agree with your present POV maybe it would help better to just actually read what they found and go from there. Honestly your rebuttal comes across as a little desperate. It's as if you are saying even if the study is true so what, psychosis aren't so bad.

    Do I think psychosis are something to be concerned about? Yes, because I know people who have had to deal with them their entire lives. If you can avoid it then do.

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    Re: Long-term cannabis use can double risk of psychosis

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    Do I think psychosis are something to be concerned about? Yes, because I know people who have had to deal with them their entire lives. If you can avoid it then do.
    Fair point. We know beyond reasonable doubt that pot effects short term memory and stoners are more likely to get depression. But all those things ignore the practical. People caught smoking pot end up causing jail to be over run and violent offenders released. And psychosis can result from the abuse of many readily available substances.

    Marijuana is also being explored as a cure to some forms of psychosis and medical conditions. While pot may not be 100 percent harmless neither is anything else.

  5. #13
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    Re: Long-term cannabis use can double risk of psychosis

    That wasn't what I was saying at all.. I was saying that a person prone to psychotic behavior... is probably more prone to self medicating with marijuana. That perhaps it is already having these ailments in early stages that would provoke one to use marijuana. If smoking marijuana... over long term.. made certain symptoms worse; despite whether or not it helped on a short term basis. It wouldn't be any worse of a drug than prescription pharmaceuticals.

    I also did read your article. Clearly, saying he "followed them up" after 21 years... would not indicate that is the age they began using. Nor would it indicate that is when he started his study. Usually a "follow up" is exactly that. Following up on something you've previously addressed. Simply interviewing after the age of 21 means nothing to me. In fact, that just makes his information less accurate.

    John McGrath of the Queensland Brain Institute in Australia studied more than 3,801 men and women born between 1981 and 1984 and followed them up after 21 years to ask about their cannabis use and assessed them for psychotic episodes. Around 18 percent reported using cannabis for three or fewer years, 16 percent for four to five years and 14 percent for six or more years.
    Ok... so you're interviewed at 21.... you report having used marijuana for 6 or more years.... That would make you..... 14 years old when you started? Or maybe its only been 4 to 5 years that you've used. That would mean you started at 15 or 16? Ok ok... maybe you're referring to that 18 percent which reported only using in 3 or fewer years. Would that not still place them in their later teens when they began using?

    Tell me.... what other way would you interpret your own information?

    My rebuttal wasn't even sincerealy a rebuttal. I couldn't care less what you or anyone else thinks about what marijuana blah blah blah... See... I cared so less I didn't even finish the sentence.

    My rant was to show you that studies like this, and even the one I pulled out of a hat to refute it ... are bulls#!t (for a lack of a better term). Be careful, you are living in a place and time where the information that is meant for your eyes... you'll be given easy access to. It will be made to look convincing. Don't go basing your trusted sources of knowledge on theses studies. That pertains to either side of this debate

    I'm receiving Social Security for mental illness. I have been evaluated, and re-evaluated. I have been institutionalized. Self medicated, and medicated by our good ol' pharmaceutical system. Perhaps I'm not the best to refute that us potheads aren't crazy.

    I currently am not using marijuana or any prescription drug. I have full custody of 2 kids, and have been told I am one of the most "inspirational" of clients... by all my therapists and county workers. lol. Seriously. I have a higher IQ than many people I know with great jobs and college degrees. And, that's fact. Still, I would probably fit into your "Crazy pothead" study.. just by matching criteria.

    What I can say, is that mental illness is not uncommon. Nor is finding a "psychotic" trait buried within them. You know someone suffering from psychosis?... yeah... I'm gonna say it... Big whoopty doo. Most of us do. The sad part is, some of the REAL crazies aren't even getting diagnosed. Because it takes someone with enough sense to recognize they need help in most cases. Whens the last time you had a psych-eval? I'd say there's an 8 out of 10 chance some doctor would find you have a mental illness too.

    If you're smoking pot to ease your manic phase of bipolar, which in a manic phase may cause you to disconnect from reality... More power to ya! Sure, maybe over time it may make things a little worse. Maybe not. (I assure you it bares no more of a long term damage rate than its legal counterparts) Did it help for the time being? Probably... in fact I know some crazies who swear by it. Really, how can you be sure that these traits weren't already there, or manifesting BEFORE the pot use? How do you know they wouldn't be even worse if it weren't for the use of pot?

    It's as if you are saying even if the study is true so what, psychosis aren't so bad.
    Damn skippy!
    No... I'm joking... But seriously... It's a crazy world we're livin' in. Pass the joint.
    Last edited by Peach_follows; Mar 16, 2010 at 08:45 PM.
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  6. #14
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    Re: Long-term cannabis use can double risk of psychosis

    me personally i think its powerful for understanding to use, feel, see, taste, etc to know what something is like don't let others tell you the "truth".

    people who haven't smoked weed and won't but still fight against it I want you to know weed helped my anger and bipolar issues so don't go around trying to sway someone to not partake in something that may "seem" different.

    one person may abuse weed and make it look bad but in another case like alcohol its ok because its been around for a while, so has weed.

    pass that blunt to the left.

    THE RULES!

    I'm on my grind in search to find whats on my mind, its one of a kind!

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