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Thread: Making organ donating organ SELLING?

  1. #17
    Otaku Bow Adventure Champion OdysseanPromise may be famous one day OdysseanPromise may be famous one day
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    Re: Making organ donating organ SELLING?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barronmore View Post
    You do realize that the legality of something has nothing to do with rather it is ethical, don't you? Two of the biggest laws we have are considered unethical by many (Abortion and Capitol Punishment) and yet they are still totally legal.

    Have you guys heard about the fellow that tried to sell one of his kidney's on ebay? It got shut down real quick and there are loads of federal laws against it. It's very doubtful that the federal government will ever change that.
    Touché. The fact still remains that generally, a person's last wishes are usually respected, at least in this day and age, within our own country. I know stuff happens contrary to that, but I am using the context of the majority, and to rip someone open for all of their organs despite what some might consider a religious reservation, would just be wrong.

  2. #18
    Otaku Chubz may be famous one day Chubz may be famous one day Chubz's Avatar
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    Re: Making organ donating organ SELLING?

    Of course, there's the Chinese Government's way of making some side money......simply just executing prisoners, harvesting the organs, then selling them for some moolah.

    Can't say I agree with selling body parts. The moment you do that, you create a market for organs. I have no problem with donating organs, because it's the persons choice. But if you sell organs, you're also putting a price on humans....and, then you get examples like China, where the government is freeing up organs to sell for money.

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    Re: Making organ donating organ SELLING?

    Of course organs should be harvested from dead bodies, as far as selling is concerned, so long as there were some institution regulating the prices, I'm for that as well. I've always been on somewhat of an extreme promedicinal and proscientific view. I believe that stem cell research for instance, can thrive in a society which has outlawed abortions. This is because I feel that all miscarried fetuses (and those resulting from abortions deemed legal by the courts) should immediatly become government property for the sake of research. Yes you heard me, miscarried and aborted babies should be claimed as government property. The same goes for cadavers, once the police investigations are either done or the death is deemed to be due to something non-criminal, the bodies should also become government property, a handful of organs should go to save other's lives, and the hopefully-still-intact remains can be given to the family of the deceased for whatever funeral rites they wish to undergo.

    Sale of organs so long as the government regulates it, should be legal in cases of high demand....such as what we're seeing now.

  4. #20
    Otaku Chubz may be famous one day Chubz may be famous one day Chubz's Avatar
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    Re: Making organ donating organ SELLING?

    But your suggestion would make human bodies government property from the moment we are born, if taken to that degree. They would just claim the property once we die (hm..would the government pay the death tax then? hehe).

    I mean, your example is an extreme case, but following that logic, they would have to legally make the human body government property, thus could control the body while still alive (i.e, restricting freedom of movement, etc). If they DIDN'T make the body government property (not defining what they government owned), then the government could easily claim the bodies of tourists who die in the country, which would create international problems.

    You would have to set up regulations for what the government controls (i.e, the government controls only the bodies of its citizens). You would then have to deal with the bodies of ex-patriots, and who holds the rights to them (the country they originated from, or the country they currently live in?).
    What would happen in the case of dual-citizenship?

    Also, since the body would be government property, they could easily institute a practice of eugenics. You could also have the government using humans as lab rats for scientific experimentation, because it is their property, not yours. They could use the notion of the 'ends justifying the means,' and that in the name of science, bodies should be sacrificed to help the greater whole.

    Those would be just some of the problems that would be raised if your idea were to be taken to that level (like I said, your idea would be an extreme form, so these problems would not seem far-fetched from thereon in).

    I wouldn't have a problem if I died in an accident, and someone in the hospital needed a transplant and used my organs. If I can be of some use in death, fine by me. I prefer cremation anyhow. But if they took my parts and sold them, then I would have a problem...and come back and haunt them....or...something.

    The only problem I have, would be the selling. Making money from it would be wrong, because then it becomes a business in itself. BUT, if the organ is simply transferred to another human being, that would be different. No one would be making money, it would still retain its sanctity of saving lives, nothing else. (of course, as has been mentioned in this thread, you'd have to contend with other peoples beliefs on death, etc).

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    Otaku PsiKnot may be famous one day PsiKnot may be famous one day PsiKnot's Avatar
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    Re: Making organ donating organ SELLING?

    Allright a shot from out of the box here. What if the government offered some kind of compensation to the living in exchange for doner status? I'm not gonna give any hypothetical details but you get the point.

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  6. #22
    Otaku Chubz may be famous one day Chubz may be famous one day Chubz's Avatar
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    Re: Making organ donating organ SELLING?

    But the basis would be on the person being dead, so they're not getting any incentive ("we'll give you $1000 bucks when we harvest your body"). Certainly not a deal breaker there. The only ones recieving a benefit would be the family of the deceased.

    If it came to just giving an extra $1000 dollars ahead of time, it would just be the government buying the body, thus owning property, which would be like what Vegeta's idea. They would then have to control and regulate the person so they they get the best bang for their buck (if they give the person money ahead of time, and the person were to become an alcoholic for example, they would lose money due to liver disease and other problems).

    It also goes under the assumption that the person WILL die before becoming old, so that the organs are still in fairly young and stable shape. How can the government give money to an individual unless when they don't know when and how they will die? The ONLY people who would recieve benefits would be the family, not the individual.

    If they gave money, then they'd also have to charge extra thus increasing the price of organs (because the government would need to make money from the exchange).

    You couldn't institute anything like that because of the amount of problems that would arise.

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  7. #23
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    Re: Making organ donating organ SELLING?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubz View Post
    But the basis would be on the person being dead, so they're not getting any incentive ("we'll give you $1000 bucks when we harvest your body"). Certainly not a deal breaker there. The only ones recieving a benefit would be the family of the deceased.

    If it came to just giving an extra $1000 dollars ahead of time, it would just be the government buying the body, thus owning property, which would be like what Vegeta's idea. They would then have to control and regulate the person so they they get the best bang for their buck (if they give the person money ahead of time, and the person were to become an alcoholic for example, they would lose money due to liver disease and other problems).

    It also goes under the assumption that the person WILL die before becoming old, so that the organs are still in fairly young and stable shape. How can the government give money to an individual unless when they don't know when and how they will die? The ONLY people who would recieve benefits would be the family, not the individual.

    If they gave money, then they'd also have to charge extra thus increasing the price of organs (because the government would need to make money from the exchange).

    You couldn't institute anything like that because of the amount of problems that would arise.
    Ok. well I guess I'm gonna have to do hypotheticals. What about a small tax credit as an incentive? People get all kinds off tax credits for example: children - I get a tax credit for my kids does the government then own them? This way the person gets the incentive not their family when they die.

    As far as controlling and regulating people that really isn't necassary but it is a good idea to at least have an annual general check-up. Maybe the government could even foot the bill, who knows? And even old people parts can be of use, being an organ doner just isnt your kidneys and liver, they can take skin, hair folicals, cornia, and lots of other stuff.

    Jacking up prices, well..... If there is a greater supply what will that do to the price? Now seeing how only doners are being offset the government will have to shell out in proportion to the number of people offering their guts so to speak. Now you are probably reading this and asking yourself "where is the pay of for Unkle Sam?" well....If these organs keep people alive who might otherwise have died, they will have to pay their taxes. Also the doctor who does the operation will have to get paid, and you guessed it..that will be taxed as well. The Doc will make more money and then have to pay more taxes. follow that same line for the hospital the drug companies heck even the gift shop selling "get well soon" cards, the revenue one person can generate is astounding. then look at how many people could have been saved if there had been transplants available. You do the math. Win/Win?

    Thinking is the leading cause of death among the stupid.
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  8. #24
    Otaku Chubz may be famous one day Chubz may be famous one day Chubz's Avatar
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    Re: Making organ donating organ SELLING?

    Child tax credit though is a form of welfare, to help citizens. While it is an incentive, it is more a form of keeping the economy stable. If the family has several children, and can't afford much, then they won't spend much. The less they spend, the slower the economy. The slower the economy, the less money the government gets.

    Your suggestion would not be a form of a welfare state, because the government in essence would literally be buying those organs from you, for re-sale. And, it also relies on the fact that the government would HAVE to be counting on the person dying young, or else they wouldn't get a return. Child tax credit=government provides money. Incentive for organ donation = government buying organs for re-sale.

    The regulation would be necessary, or else the government would be running a defecit in both money AND body parts. Let's say they give out a tax incentive to 100 people, and only 10 people die young. The government is now out the money on 90 people, so they would have to increase the price value of the 10 in order to make up for that money.

    In terms of money being raised by those who are in the hospital, the government would have to increase the amount of taxation because they'd have to make an extra surplus (if you consider what they make now as being a base-line profit). Prices for hospitals would increase because they'd have to make up for the lost money taken by the increase in taxation.

    The main problem within this is simply the money aspect, trying to turn a profit for organ selling. It throws the entire thing in a loop because it would make organs a commodity (which would need to be regulated).

    The only way a system would work effectively is through organ donation, not selling.

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