atomik_sprout

I agree! That's a bunch of bull. I think he's just tryin' to find a reason to hate his job, personally. My mother's a teacher, and granted she has her own issues with the way things are handled in our school district, she'll stick to her job, because it's what she wants! She could really care less about the money--to a certain degree; we all need it--but her main focus is on educating children. I don't think it's good to merit pay based on test scores just because, like the prof. said, "Testing in itself, does not lead to improvement." There are some kids who pass tests by sheer luck, or they cram the night before--at the very last minute--so they can have answers fresh in thier head the next day and forget it all directly after class. If you want to be paid on how many students don't learn anything, that seems a bit fair compared to pay from testing scores. LOL.

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Namida Goddess

I myself do not agree with the No Child Left Behind act and if anything it has caused decline and not progress. My class had a conversation about this recently. What really came to my attention was the very manner in which they measured progress. They do not base it on the progress of a group of students from one grade to the next, they remain in one grade and compare the test scores of the next class. What i mean is say for example IOWA's or CRT progress is not determined by measuring how a group of students did as sophmores then as juniors, instead they collect data from one group of sophmores and compare it to the following year's sophmores. That is not a proper way to measure progress.

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Arrianna

I don't care if you don't teach math basic multiplication is a necessary skill in everyday life from shopping to home loans. Can you even figure your tax on a purchase for total costs?

No, you go to tech school to learn skills relevant to your respective careers. You go to college to get a degree that says you not only know your subject but have a well rounded knowledge of the world and are competent in many pertinent subjects such as math that will impact your ability to succeed in a changing work environment. That is why you have to pass advanced Algebra to graduate from any respectable University or College. Waaay past basic multiplication.

mhmmm... one class out of how many that don't change? Every other? It's not that hard to get interim info either. There is tons on information online just for situations like that. (Not that it would have mattered before standardized tests. In all my years of public school I never once had a history class actually get to the back of the book nor knew anyone who had. But yeah, those standards aren't that important are they?)

You assume wrong. You also show the exact line of thought that offends me. Teachers are public servants and should be held accountable by the public. It's not a "line of work" it is a service just like Firefighters and Policemen. The difference is that I don't see them getting upset because people want them to be competent and show results.

Lets see how that compares to yearly exams and losing their license for incompetence. Nope, doesn't measure up.

Because when I said, "I have every respect for teachers. I have no respect for people who feel entitled to benefits without results." I was showing an "irrational hatred of educators"? Don't be absurd. As I said before I have every respect for teachers. I have no respect for the Teachers/Education Union after watching them scream anytime they were held accountable for their actions and do their best to force parents to keep their kids in their system unless they could afford private schools. I have friends and relatives who teach and I have done my best not to be sick to my stomach as they tell me how their yearly updates from the Union before the school year was basically nothing more then a "this is why the new standards suck and you are being screwed". There is a complete disassociation between the National organizations and parents. Every time there is a law voted in that would place more responsibilities with the parents the Union fights it as if there very life was threatened. They are completely out of touch in my opinion and have turned into another government pork barrel fighting for their existence.

As a matter of fact I home school my children because of what I have both experienced and witnessed personally. I do spend my own money on supplies out of my own pocket because tax money intended for my child for school doesn't go to any child outside the public school system in this state.

Oh what a... give me a break. How many people actually get to go into their field of choice? The average person has 5 different careers in their lifetime. If all you have taught them is to want to learn about something they are already passionate about then you have failed them and set them up for a life of failure. The point of an education is exactly what it is called EDUCATION. If they leave school without being educated then you haven't done that. Standards require an evidence of EDUCATION. People don't have to like it they just have to do it.

Perhaps it would be believable that they only wanted what was best for the children if when No Child Left Behind was instituted they said, "it has some problems can we make adjustments based on X"? I have never heard that however. All I hear is, "it sucks", "the system is broken", "a teacher could be fired because their students didn't pass", "we need to get rid of standardized tests".

They want to return to what it was like when I was in high school. When the best Teacher I ever had was so good at teaching his subject and got us so involved that he was giving the hardest tests he ever had and 70% of all his classes were still getting A's... and he was told he has to stop because he was making the other teachers look bad. Under the standards you are objecting to, under pay based on results, he would be the highest paid teacher in the school, and he should be. That is what incentive will do for you.

Here is the real question, do you want to teach or do you want tenure? If you want tenure get the degree and teach at a University. When it comes to primary education I want people who want to teach. When I find it AND a system that allows them to then my children will go learn from them, not before.

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Descended From Darkness

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Arrianna

Tech/Trade schools are schools that teach you exactly what you need to work in the field and no more. Colleges/Universities require that you also pass general requirements in Humanities, Language Arts, Fine Arts, History, Math, etc. That is the difference between them. If someone has a Certificate then the have only passed specific Tech/Trade requirements. If they have an ASS, BS, MS, PHD etc then they have also passed other requirements such as Adv Algebra. That was my point.
Depends on the job. If you want someone to work with their hands then you look for someone with work experience. If you want a beginning engineer to help with figures and mapping you get someone from school that has passed the tests that says they know how. (My sister was majoring in engineering. )
Yes, hope I didn't scare you to much.

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ILikeApples5520

I've gotta go with tsu on this one.

I mean, the Teacher is the one getting cheated by greedy republicans trying to get everyone passing high school and into jobs in the cheapest way.

NCLB is like their dream plan.

And personally, the thing about no student getting left back is the most ridiculous. It would lower the standard of the next level and wouldn't provide proprer education for the students.

@ arianna: I think what your saying is very offensive to teachers and how hard Good teachers work for their students.

I'm a junior in a public high school and, though this might be because i'm in a good neighborhood and town, is very very good. And most teachers there work very hard for their students and give it their all. That's why, even though most of their outside attitudes towards students are a pain in the ass, i know they work hard and I respect that.

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