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![]() Verbal Vandal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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![]() ![]() ![]() Credits: 125,196 | Re: No Child Left Behind: 'Widespread Demoralization Of Teachers And Students I agree! That's a bunch of bull. I think he's just tryin' to find a reason to hate his job, personally. My mother's a teacher, and granted she has her own issues with the way things are handled in our school district, she'll stick to her job, because it's what she wants! She could really care less about the money--to a certain degree; we all need it--but her main focus is on educating children. I don't think it's good to merit pay based on test scores just because, like the prof. said, "Testing in itself, does not lead to improvement." There are some kids who pass tests by sheer luck, or they cram the night before--at the very last minute--so they can have answers fresh in thier head the next day and forget it all directly after class. If you want to be paid on how many students don't learn anything, that seems a bit fair compared to pay from testing scores. LOL. Last edited by Chiefblackhammer; Sep 14, 2007 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Removed excess quote |
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![]() Diamond in the Rough | Re: No Child Left Behind: 'Widespread Demoralization Of Teachers And Students I myself do not agree with the No Child Left Behind act and if anything it has caused decline and not progress. My class had a conversation about this recently. What really came to my attention was the very manner in which they measured progress. They do not base it on the progress of a group of students from one grade to the next, they remain in one grade and compare the test scores of the next class. What i mean is say for example IOWA's or CRT progress is not determined by measuring how a group of students did as sophmores then as juniors, instead they collect data from one group of sophmores and compare it to the following year's sophmores. That is not a proper way to measure progress.
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![]() Lady Barronmore | Re: No Child Left Behind: 'Widespread Demorilzation Of Teachers And Students I don't care if you don't teach math basic multiplication is a necessary skill in everyday life from shopping to home loans. Can you even figure your tax on a purchase for total costs? Quote:
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Because when I said, "I have every respect for teachers. I have no respect for people who feel entitled to benefits without results." I was showing an "irrational hatred of educators"? Don't be absurd. As I said before I have every respect for teachers. I have no respect for the Teachers/Education Union after watching them scream anytime they were held accountable for their actions and do their best to force parents to keep their kids in their system unless they could afford private schools. I have friends and relatives who teach and I have done my best not to be sick to my stomach as they tell me how their yearly updates from the Union before the school year was basically nothing more then a "this is why the new standards suck and you are being screwed". There is a complete disassociation between the National organizations and parents. Every time there is a law voted in that would place more responsibilities with the parents the Union fights it as if there very life was threatened. They are completely out of touch in my opinion and have turned into another government pork barrel fighting for their existence. Quote:
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Perhaps it would be believable that they only wanted what was best for the children if when No Child Left Behind was instituted they said, "it has some problems can we make adjustments based on X"? I have never heard that however. All I hear is, "it sucks", "the system is broken", "a teacher could be fired because their students didn't pass", "we need to get rid of standardized tests". They want to return to what it was like when I was in high school. When the best Teacher I ever had was so good at teaching his subject and got us so involved that he was giving the hardest tests he ever had and 70% of all his classes were still getting A's... and he was told he has to stop because he was making the other teachers look bad. Under the standards you are objecting to, under pay based on results, he would be the highest paid teacher in the school, and he should be. That is what incentive will do for you. Here is the real question, do you want to teach or do you want tenure? If you want tenure get the degree and teach at a University. When it comes to primary education I want people who want to teach. When I find it AND a system that allows them to then my children will go learn from them, not before. Last edited by Arrianna; Sep 14, 2007 at 04:36 PM. | ||||||
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| Jigoku Shoujo Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: somewhere far far away from here.
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![]() ![]() Credits: 10,004 | Re: No Child Left Behind: 'Widespread Demoralization Of Teachers And Students O.o Okay just by reading Arrianna's and tsuara's arguements...I'm scared. But I'm going to try and present my arguement to the table. Anyways I think No Child Left Behind is a waste of time and funding. For one thing I don't agree with the standardized tests. Sure it's supposed to test what we've learned over the years but then what's the point in taking exams, the SATs, the ACTs. Also here in Texas you are required to pass the TAKS (Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills) for graduation. Which is stupid. If you don't pass it you get a certificate saying you went to school for twelve years which just proves that if that happens then your time in school is a waste of time. Another thing is paying teachers a higher amount won't do a student any good. Trust me that has happened in my hometown. My third grade teacher was probably paid much more than teachers now. Don't ask me how much cause I don't know. Anyways she was a crappy teacher and I was learning kindergarten math instead of well third grade math. So many may be an issue to some it doesn't fit into the equation. College DOES however have classes that do fit what you want to do once you get out of college. (As does high school, well my high school at least) Like say I want to be a psychologist (which I do) they offer psychology, sociology, and other social science classes that are required for you to major in that field. If there weren't any corressponding to your job then why the hell do you need majors for? Tech schools are simply put schools where you want to learn about technology. In other words, computer programming, game design, basically anything that deals with computers. Actually pay attention to the ITT tech commercials. And another thing grades doesn't mean shit. Seriously. There is a huge difference between doing something out in rl and learning it in a book. Those who can do it effectively in the rl. Those who learn and only know it by the book should teach it. In other words an engineer needs to learn how to work with their hands half the time. Not their booksmarts. An engineer who only knows it by the book can't work with their hands and can't repair a simple machine effectively nor efficently as the engineer who can work without leanring it by the book. So who do you choose? Of course you'll choose the book-smart engineer, why because he went to college of course. But you'll make a mistake. That's why those who can only teach should leave it to those who can do the job effectively. In other words you can get all the A's you want but you will still fail life. I just hope this all made sense. ^___^U
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![]() Lady Barronmore | Re: No Child Left Behind: 'Widespread Demoralization Of Teachers And Students Quote:
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)Yes, hope I didn't scare you to much. | |||
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Otaku Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bergen County, NJ
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![]() Credits: 6,433 | Re: No Child Left Behind: 'Widespread Demoralization Of Teachers And Students I've gotta go with tsu on this one. I mean, the Teacher is the one getting cheated by greedy republicans trying to get everyone passing high school and into jobs in the cheapest way. NCLB is like their dream plan. And personally, the thing about no student getting left back is the most ridiculous. It would lower the standard of the next level and wouldn't provide proprer education for the students. @ arianna: I think what your saying is very offensive to teachers and how hard Good teachers work for their students. I'm a junior in a public high school and, though this might be because i'm in a good neighborhood and town, is very very good. And most teachers there work very hard for their students and give it their all. That's why, even though most of their outside attitudes towards students are a pain in the ass, i know they work hard and I respect that.
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